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Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 01:01 AM
This thread got a lot longer than an I intended, so I thought I'd put a quick blurb here at the top of what it discusses:

1) A system better than WSB for powerlifting.
2) A system that lets you train at 100% intensity within the core-lift ROMs yearround with no adverse effects to the CNS.
3) A semi-detailed template of how this system works.
4) Why the system works and what advantages it has over standard WSB rhetoric.


Ok, here's the deal. I know WSB is a household name, and I know speaking out against their methods is sacreligious in many circles and can even incite fist-fights. But believe it or not, there is a much better way to train for powerlifting than WSB.

Background: I started powerlifting in 1997 as a shitty, skinny kid. By the end of the year I had a 200-ish bench, a high 300 pull, and a 200-ish squat using my coaches archaic 3 x 5 template (3 sets of 5 one day for bench, 3 x 5 two days later for squat, 3 x 5 two days later for deadlift). For the next few years, I was pretty much peaked out and had begun to lose interest in lifting due to the lack of progress the systems I tried were yielding.

In 2001, I had a 290-ish bench, a low 400 pull, and a low-300 squat. Instead of quitting, I decided to get pissed at myself for sheer lack of progress and really research the physiology behind training. That's when I discovered that the CNS, more than anything else, is responsible for greater strength (seems like a ridiculously simple statement now that I type it out, but at the time I thought what most amateur lifters though: more muscle = more strength). This is how I found WSB.

I followed their template religiously, and by the end of 2002 I had a 335 bench (benching was always my weak point, so progress is slow), a 505 pull, and a 455 squat. I was impressed with the numbers, but still not satisfied. I wondered by the WSB guys put so much emphasis on assistance movements that were lighter than the core lifts, why they used non-powerlifting lifts on maximal effort (ME) day, and whether operating outside the core ROMs was the best way to build strength within the core ROMs without developing bad quirks.

That's when I found Jim Parrish through a friend at a state meet. He explained to me that Jim was experimenting with different band tension levels, to which I immediately said "WSB's been doing that for years." Then my friend further explained that while WSB used bands for things like speed work and stretching, Jim was using them every single day on ME day. He used the bands in a rotation of combinations so that every day ME day he could bench, squat, or pull at 100% intensity without overtaxing the CNS, by tricking the CNS into thinking a totally different exercise was being performed (this happens because the strength curve of each band combination is radically different, and the CNS will only regress when taxed at about 90% or higher within the same strength curve for a few consecutive workouts).

For an explanation on the bands, check out www.westside-barbell.com

Also, Jim and his guys at Body Factory in PA doubled the bands rather than just looping them, producing not only much greater tension, but constant tension, even at chest level, in the hole, or on the floor. To me, this made a tremendous amount of sense. Even when the bar was idly resting on their chests, it was being pulled downward at a rate faster than gravity.

Furthermore, they used the bands in a much more aggressive nature, some days using only band weight on the bar to maximize the effects of the tension. This gave the Body Factory guys a huge advantage, in that their squats on ME day may only weight 500-600 pounds in the hole, but could possibly weight close to 1,500 pounds at lockout. This makes a 1K squat with freeweight feel like a joke (so I'm told).

They dubbed the system "Joe Average Powerlifting," since Jim is a complete regular guy with skinny arms and leg and not a spec of athletic ability.

The JA guys went on to eliminate most of the WSB assistance work, with great success. For example, I used to do dips religiously, but as my dips went up, my bench stayed the same. What's the point of this superficial "assistance work?" There isn't any. Scrap it. The only assistance work done on the JA program is close grip bench work with a band rotation, within a ROM ranging from chest level to 4 or 5 board press (depending on arm length). This legs you overload the lockout, use band tension, and operate within the normal bench ROM all at once. A far cry better than doing dumbbell overhead press, which is about as radically different from the bench ROM as you can get, and requries far less weight.

When I could do wide-stance good mornings with over 500 pounds for reps and close-stance good mornings with over 600 pounds for reps, my squat and DL were about 455 and 525, respectively. What's the point of getting monsterously strong at GMs if you can't do them at a meet and they're not benefiting your core lifts? There isn't any. Scrap them.

So, on to the template. I recommend a 2-week rotation for JA lfiters, even if you're currently on a 1-week WSB rotation (which is too much for "unassisted" lifters, in my opinion and experience).


Week 1:

Monday: dynamic effort (DE) squat day: freeweight squats x 10+ to failure, speedwork for squats, 8 sets of 2, no box, doubled bands for a total of about 65% of your max at lockout. Then walk out of the gym.

Tuesday: rest

Wednesday: DE bench day: freeweight bench x 10+ to failure, speedwork for bench, 8 sets of 3 with doubled bands, 60% max at lockout, then walk out of the gym.

Thursday: rest

Friday: Tricep work: (band combination 1, 70% bar weight, 30% bands) close grip bench x 3-5 to failure, 2 board press (BP) x 3-5 to failure, 3BP x 3-5 to failure, 4BP x 3-5 to failure. Medium grip rack lockouts (MGLO) x 3-5 to failure. Pull-up rotation 1 (bodyweight or whatever lets you do 10+ reps) x 1 set to failure.

Weekend: rest

Week 2:

Monday: ME Squat/DL day: DL (band combination 1, 50% band weight, 50% bar weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Squat (band combination 1, 50% band weight, 50% bar weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Walk out of the gym.

Tuesday: rest

Wednesday: ME Bench day: (band combination 1, 50% bar weight, 50% band weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Walk out of the gym.

Thursday: rest

Friday: same as last friday, but with band combination 2 (70% band weight, 30% bar weight), and add weight to pullups to make your failure set 6-8 reps.

Week 3:

Monday: DE squat day: freeweight squats x 8-10 to failure, speedwork for squats, 8 sets of 2, no box, doubled bands for a total of about 65% of your max at lockout. Then walk out of the gym.

Tuesday: rest

Wednesday: DE bench day: freeweight bench x 8-10 to failure, speedwork for bench, 8 sets of 3 with doubled bands, 60% max at lockout, then walk out of the gym.

Thursday: rest

Friday: Tricep work: (band combination 3, 100% band weight) same as other tricep days, add weight to pull-ups to get your reps around 5.

Weekend: rest

Week 4:

Monday: ME Squat/DL day: DL (band combination 2, 30% band weight, 70% bar weight, DL is the only lift where the bands were in reverse, lowering the tension as the meet approaches) x 1-2 reps to failure. Squat (band combination 2, 70% band weight, 30% bar weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Walk out of the gym.

Tuesday: rest

Wednesday: ME Bench day: (band combination 2, 70% band weight, 30% bar weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Walk out of the gym.

Thursday: rest

Friday: Back to band combination 1, same rep goals, add 5-10 pound to each set from last workout with combination 1. Same pull-up weight as week 1 to failure.

Weekend: rest

Week 5:

Monday: DE squat day: freeweight squats x 6-8 to failure, speedwork for squats, 8 sets of 2, no box, doubled bands for a total of about 65% of your max at lockout. Then walk out of the gym.

Tuesday: rest

Wednesday: DE bench day: freeweight bench x 6-8 to failure, speedwork for bench, 8 sets of 3 with doubled bands, 60% max at lockout, then walk out of the gym.

Thursday: rest

Friday: Tricep work: Band combination 2, same rep goals, add 5-10 pounds to your last band combo 2 numbers, pull-ups in the 6-8 rep range.

Weekend: rest

Week 6:

Monday: ME Squat/DL day: DL (band combination 3, 15% band weight, 85% bar weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Squat (band combination 3, 100% band weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Walk out of the gym.

Tuesday: rest

Wednesday: ME Bench day: (band combination 3, 100% band weight) x 1-2 reps to failure. Walk out of the gym.

Thursday: rest

Friday: Back to band combination 3, same rep goals, add 5-10 pound to each set from last workout with combination 3. pull-ups 5 reps to failure with whatever weight you're using on this day.

Weekend: rest



Here, you've used each ME band combination once. Now you start the template over on your ME days ONLY. Everything else progresses in the same pattern. Your DE bench and squat days will continue adding a little weight while your reps decrease down to a 1RM peak over the 12-week cycle. For your ME stuff, you should be able to go back to band combinations 1, 2, and 3 and add 10-20, sometimes 50 pounds depending on how your body has reacted to the bands.

Hope this makes sense. It works beautifully, but you have to be very careful about following the template and keeping a log (if you don't keep a log, this program will not work for you, period).

This took me to a 377.5 bench, 655 squat, 600 deadlift in a little over a year, a gain of almost 350 pounds on my total. Hope it helps.

You can read more on this system at www.joeaveragepowerlifting.com

CHH
12-25-2005, 04:17 AM
Holy shit, what a well thought out, scientifically informed post.....are we still on BK.com?

This is very fascinating to me, as I'm about to check out their website. However, I'm gonna put a disclaimer on this for you. Powerlifters only need to move in 3 ways, weekend warriors and general purpose athletes need to move in an infinite amount of ways. This sounds like a great program for powerlifters, but I think most athletes are benefited by building strength and muscle recruitment at many different angles and in many different movement patterns.

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 06:00 AM
Holy shit, what a well thought out, scientifically informed post.....are we still on BK.com?

This is very fascinating to me, as I'm about to check out their website. However, I'm gonna put a disclaimer on this for you. Powerlifters only need to move in 3 ways, weekend warriors and general purpose athletes need to move in an infinite amount of ways. This sounds like a great program for powerlifters, but I think most athletes are benefited by building strength and muscle recruitment at many different angles and in many different movement patterns.


Couldn't agree with you more. I was just talking to a guy about this today (one of my old training partners who moved to Kentucky). We reminisced on how we probably couldn't out shoulder-press anyone in the gym, but nobody could come close to our totals. It just depends on what you want to do, and how bad you want it. For powerlifters, this is the Rolls Royce of templates.

CHH
12-25-2005, 06:28 AM
Couldn't agree with you more. I was just talking to a guy about this today (one of my old training partners who moved to Kentucky). We reminisced on how we probably couldn't out shoulder-press anyone in the gym, but nobody could come close to our totals. It just depends on what you want to do, and how bad you want it. For powerlifters, this is the Rolls Royce of templates.Where out in Kentucky?

I like the ideas behind this routine a lot. It's 100% sports specific, and I fucking love sport specificity. In the short time after I read the articles on the site, I've been working with how to include the ideas in this method with a more well rounded workout routine than can induce some hypertrophy and just make you more well rounded athlete as well as huge CNS adaption for the sports specific movement patterns.

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 06:44 AM
Where out in Kentucky?

I like the ideas behind this routine a lot. It's 100% sports specific, and I fucking love sport specificity. In the short time after I read the articles on the site, I've been working with how to include the ideas in this method with a more well rounded workout routine than can induce some hypertrophy and just make you more well rounded athlete as well as huge CNS adaption for the sports specific movement patterns.

He works at UK (is that in Lexington?) as a nework security engineer.

Yeah, the bare-essential, completely specific nature of this routine is what drew me to it, just as the realistic concepts behind submission grappling drew me to BJJ (vice some wing chung bullshit). I was a site administrator (probably still am, even though I haven't been on it in ages) because, by his own admission, I'm a better writer than Jim and better understand the science behind the routine. I even started to write a book on the system, but just kinda stopped for some reason... (laziness, I'm sure).

Anyway, we've seen it all by way of manipulating the system to make it work for "X-type" athletes. Feel free to run any questions, comments, or critiques by me and I'll be glad to help out wherever I can with your incorporations.

CHH
12-25-2005, 06:56 AM
Ya, UK's in Lex. Do chains come into play in this routine? I would think that mixing chains in there would help save the CNS by being able to repeat the same ROM with different emphasis on near by days. Not to mention all the bottom weak people out there (like me).

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 08:03 AM
Ya, UK's in Lex. Do chains come into play in this routine? I would think that mixing chains in there would help save the CNS by being able to repeat the same ROM with different emphasis on near by days. Not to mention all the bottom weak people out there (like me).

No, bands are like chains on steroids. When a bar with chains is sitting at chest level, what are the chains doing? Nothing. When a bar with doubled bands is at chest level, it's actually pulling down on you. The starting velocity needed to push it off your chest or outta the hole is a prime advantage of bands over chains or freeweight.

The CNS won't get overtaxed as long as your band rotation is extremely varied. For example, my rotation on squats was something like this:

ME squat tension 1: 365-ish bar weight + doubled green (medium) bands (probably another 550-600 at lockout) x 1-2.

ME squat tension 2: 185-ish bar weight + doubled greens and purples (smalls) (probably another 900 or so at lockout) x 1-2.

ME squat tension 3: just the bar + doubled greens, purples, and blues (minis) (probably about 1080-1120 at lockout, ballpark).

That produces a radically different strength curve, believe me. Your CNS will have no negative adaptive reflex, because it simply cannot acclimate to the constant change in strength curves. The only reaction it can possibly have to combat this is to increase reversal and absolute strength and recruit more muscle fiber to complete the lifts.

I don't even have to emphasize that you must literally trust your spotters with your life on shit like this, because 1100 pounds of band tension catapulting you to the floor will almost undoubtedly kill you or at least cause some sort of serious bodily injury. the way we set it up was like this: we'd set the bar on the pins, about 6-8 inches below our lockout height. Then we'd get under the bar, get our squat stance, and lock the weight out. After that, guys on the side would pull the pins and put them down to a pin height just below parallel (all these were presets depending on the lifter; we had it down cold). When the lift was done, side spotters would again grab the pins while the rear spotter bear hugged the squatter and held him up. The pins would go back to their starting height and the entire process would repeat from there. This simulates a monolift without dropping the $2.5K.

Pics of ME squat day 3:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/Dan181/Sammy1RMBenchandDanMESquatDec04013.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/Dan181/Sammy1RMBenchandDanMESquatDec04001.jpg

Merlin
12-25-2005, 02:41 PM
Good post. Reps.

However I know that some of the guys at Westside and the other major PL gyms have been doing band work on ME days for some time. Even shirt work with bands.

It's also noteworthy that most people on this forum would have little use for this program.

And about the bands vs chains thing -- they are two separate beasts with different purposes. The use of chains isn't to keep maximal resistance throughout the lift. Even within this program, something like this would be beneficial, no?

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c296/Merlin187/532125.jpg

Merlin
12-25-2005, 02:49 PM
PS
Do you lift in the IPA?

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 04:01 PM
PS
Do you lift in the IPA?

The only reason I didn't is because we don't have it in Hawaii (believe it or not, the PL scene out here is junk). I lifted in USAPL and WABDL. Gus, the WABDL president, is from Honolulu, so there are tons of meets out here.

The WSB guys use bands for different purposes, they usually don't double the bands (with the exception of George Halbert, and look at his bench!), and they use them in much more sparing combinations (e.g., a heavy band day at Westside could be 40% or 50% band weight). I don't really believe in chain/band combinations. In the case of that picture, a few things are wrong in principle.

1) They're using multiple small bands (2 sets of minis). You should always aspire to use larger individual bands and combinations of larger bands, because the ballistics of, say, a medium band is different than the ballistics of a small + mini, even though they may be equal weight at lockout.

2) There are chains on the bar. I know this is a WSB mainstay and I'll be crucified for it, but why eat hamburger when you've got steak? From what I can speculate here, they should remove the bands and chains and throw a doubled medium on there. Not keeping tension on the bar throughout the lift is a prime reason chain weight, though revolutionary at one point, is slowly being exposed as wholy inferiour to bands (although don't expect WSB to ever abandon this, because Louie puts food on the table selling chains and advice on chains).

3) The bar weight is way too high for such a small band combination. Ultimately chains only count as bar weigth. While bands make a combination more difficult (e.g., it's harder to lock 300 pounds band weight than bar weight), chains make a combination much easier (I could probably lock 500 chain weight because it's so ridiculously easy off the chest). Considering there are only 2 minis on the bar (about 140-150 pounds of tension) and over 300 bar weight + chain weight, this is nowhere near the tension percentage needed to reap the benefits of the bands. Your CNS will primarily recognize the freeweight. For effective ME work, the combination should be reversed: 300-ish pounds of tension, maybe 140-150 pounds of bar weight. This would be a good Bench ME Day 2 combination, if my early morning math is right. =)



Merlin, I totally agree that not many people on this forum need this workout. I just wanted to get it out there and spark some conversation between a few of us (I had you and CHH in mind, actually!). Anyway, thanks for your comments; hope you're having a good Christmas bro.

CHH
12-25-2005, 05:23 PM
I agree, this is totally academic to me (but fascinating academics). I've been lifting seriously for 3 years seriously, minus 1 year, and I've even been on a haitus for a few months due to a hectic schedule. All I've gotta do is pile weights on a the bar and my totals keep going up for now. In addition I lift without spotters, cuz I'm totally hardcore.

I'm starting to see the method of this program. Even though I'm probably never squat with 300 pounds and 3 doubled blue bands, I'm sure I can incorporate the ideas of varied band tension to build muscle recruitment.

CoachB40
12-25-2005, 06:03 PM
I too have often wondered why so much accessory work in WSB, but I would venture a guess that it would have to do with the most common limiting factors on the main three. In accordance with what you said though there comes a point when your accessory work is almost ridiculous, this is because it is no longer even close to being a weak point (GM=80% of Squat). I think, and you would be the proof, that for a powerlifter who has used WSB this would the the next progression. Unfortunately for me, I have not decided on which area I would like to focus on. While lifting weights to develop power will help in MMA (technique is more important, but adding power to great technique will help), becoming a ridiculously strong powerlifter will have little to no affect.

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 08:39 PM
I too have often wondered why so much accessory work in WSB, but I would venture a guess that it would have to do with the most common limiting factors on the main three. In accordance with what you said though there comes a point when your accessory work is almost ridiculous, this is because it is no longer even close to being a weak point (GM=80% of Squat). I think, and you would be the proof, that for a powerlifter who has used WSB this would the the next progression. Unfortunately for me, I have not decided on which area I would like to focus on. While lifting weights to develop power will help in MMA (technique is more important, but adding power to great technique will help), becoming a ridiculously strong powerlifter will have little to no affect.

Although I totally see where you're coming from, I would honestly consider WSB's template to be far more advanced than JA's. Reason being, WSB will cause beginners to develop bad habits in their core ROMs. With JA, you go through the core ROMs on such a regular basis that you develop fantastic technique and muscle memory within these grooves. Remember that with WSB, you only bench heavy at meets. Other than that, your only bench movement is speed work. Beginners on WSB invariably freak out under the weight of a contest bench, because they haven't been there-done that. JA actually lets you overload on every ME day (that is, your ME bench at lockout will be monumentally scarier than your contest best 1RM). The guys who flourish on WSB (despite Louie's assertions) are the guys who are already pretty decent powerlifters. Guys like Angelo B., Doug Heath, Mike Ruggeria... all these guys were already monumentally strong by the time they came to Westside. With JA, on the other hand, I took a guy from a 135 to a 402 in under a year, totally from scratch, and I'm not even really a "coach" of the system. Those are the kind of results I'm measuring progress by nowdays. A new guy on WSB will see all his numbers skyrocket except his core lifts. Not saying they won't go up, but you need waaaay more specificity early on than WSB has to offer, unless you find a meet that incorporates glute-ham raises and medium-grip rack lockouts.

EDIT for an add on: But that's not to say you're wrong at all! I'd encourage WSB powerlifters to move to this system. WSB isn't a logical progression from this system, because you ALWAYS want to strive for sport specificity. Louie, strangely, is the first person to agree on this. But he detests our system! I don't get it, but it all comes down to the almighty $$$$$$.

CHH
12-25-2005, 09:08 PM
I have another minor question

How do ya'll set up bands for deadlift in a regular gym, especially doubled? I have no real desire to put 1000 pounds of lockout band tension on a bench or squat, but I'm a total deadlift whore. If I can set up some heavy band movements for deadlift pretty easily, I might be inclined to start another deadlift race with myself.

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 09:40 PM
I have another minor question

How do ya'll set up bands for deadlift in a regular gym, especially doubled? I have no real desire to put 1000 pounds of lockout band tension on a bench or squat, but I'm a total deadlift whore. If I can set up some heavy band movements for deadlift pretty easily, I might be inclined to start another deadlift race with myself.

Here are some pics of the band setup on close grip bench (unfortunately I don't have good pics of the band setup, so bear with me while I equate this to deadlift):

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/Dan181/badsetup2.jpg

Inset:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/Dan181/bandsetup.jpg

Now you have a two key things in these pics. First, the power rack is tipped forward and a plate is shoved under the corner. This frees-up room for the bands to be run underneath. Remember, the key to doubling is bringing each end of the band back to the bar; that's where the contant tension comes from. Second, there's adequate counterweight on all four corners of the rack. If you don't have good counterweight, you will literally catapult the rack off the ground during your hand-off (we've done this many times).

It's critical that the bands be the exact same length on each end when you're holding the bands loosely after running them under the rack (when you're about to stretch them to the bar collar). If they're not, you could end up with one side having 100 pounds of tension and the other side having 145 pounds of tension. Not good. Once you unrack the bar, the bands will always try to torque and correct themselves (so you never want to roll the bar around the rack--this torques the bands; you always want to slide the bar around when you need to move it).

For deadlift, rather than starting with the band under the power rack, start with it over the base bar of the power rack. Now take one end and loop it under, then do the same thing with the other end. You'll have what's called a double 1/2 over wrap, where the base bar is essentially wrapped in the band. Still extremely important that the bands are equal length through this process. After that, you do not immediately wrap the bands on the bar. First, pull the ends of the band up and take two small rubber bands and wrap them around the bands. Sounds weird, but pretend the bands are your Johnson and the small rubber bands are a condom (now you get the idea?). Once you have those on, securely push them to the bottom, so they're sitting at the base of the double 1/2 over wrap, securing it to the rack. After that, slide the bar in. Now take the top rubber band and slide it up. So now you have one rubber band near the base bar and one near the power bar. This keeps the bands from dancing around and is essential to the setup.

I hope that made sense! If not, I can get some pics soon (maybe tomorrow). Let me know...

CHH
12-25-2005, 09:53 PM
It's a bit convoluted, bit I got it after some heavy visualization. I guess all the zen practice came into use afterall! I'll have to wait until I move to my new gym before I try it unfortunately, because my gym doesn't have the right style powerrack.

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 10:19 PM
It's a bit convoluted, bit I got it after some heavy visualization. I guess all the zen practice came into use afterall! I'll have to wait until I move to my new gym before I try it unfortunately, because my gym doesn't have the right style powerrack.

They don't have a power rack with a base around it? Or is it bolted down? Usually this is doable in any gym...

CHH
12-25-2005, 10:37 PM
They don't have a power rack with a base around it? Or is it bolted down? Usually this is doable in any gym...
It's lacking a base bar in the back, it's like set up with fold down footsteps so short idiots can get up there to do chins. I might be able to wrap it around the footstep brace or something. It's really not even a power rack, I'll see if I can find a pic of it somewhere

CHH
12-25-2005, 10:43 PM
http://www.housing.umass.edu/hallserv/images/wc_web01_upd.jpg

It's exactly like that. Drop on "pins", a base underneath the pins so you can't pull off the floor from inside, and a bunch of shitty machinery at the base in the back that precludes a bar, and gets in your way while squatting.

Anton Chigurh
12-25-2005, 11:02 PM
Yeah, that's junk. It would be hard to do this program on that gayness.

CHH
12-25-2005, 11:04 PM
Yeah, that's junk. It would be hard to do this program on that gayness.I'm thinking about breaking it so they are forced to buy a new one. The safety pins drop onto the rack, with nothing securing them from the top. I'm pretty sure if I just unrack 700 pounds or so and drop it on the pins, something will break and I can fake hurt myself, saying something like "well I guess I could talk to my lawyer...but if you replace it with a real power rack then I can workout without any safety concerns"

CoachB40
12-25-2005, 11:06 PM
I may try this when I return to Hawaii just to see what type of numbers I can put up (no power rack over here, just a squat rack without a base bar). As far as starting this with someone new, do you mean someone new to lifting or new to powerlifting. I am wondering because that type of gain is crazy. I realize you have to be careful since your dealing with such a large amount of resistance compared to your 1RM, but besides negligence is rate of injury any higher using this program? I had already started down the overloading the CNS path by using static holds much greater than my 1RM, but always felt like there had to be a better way, you know a way to actually press and have my body feel more weight than normal through the majority of the lift (without having my spotter getting a workout). Thanks for sharing the program.

Anton Chigurh
12-26-2005, 04:36 AM
I may try this when I return to Hawaii just to see what type of numbers I can put up (no power rack over here, just a squat rack without a base bar). As far as starting this with someone new, do you mean someone new to lifting or new to powerlifting. I am wondering because that type of gain is crazy. I realize you have to be careful since your dealing with such a large amount of resistance compared to your 1RM, but besides negligence is rate of injury any higher using this program? I had already started down the overloading the CNS path by using static holds much greater than my 1RM, but always felt like there had to be a better way, you know a way to actually press and have my body feel more weight than normal through the majority of the lift (without having my spotter getting a workout). Thanks for sharing the program.

The guy who I put on the program had lifted maybe 10 times in his life, and his bench, squat, and dead skyrocketed like no other n00b I've ever seen (he was my first experiment in putting a non-lifter on the program). Our other partner, who had a 185 bench to start, did 315 x 1 and near-missed with 350 after just one cycle (12 weeks). As far as rate of injury goes, start taking glucosomine before you do any system that revolves around ballistic work and overload work (such as JA and WSB). Ballistic benching is hell on the elbows, but glucosomine completely protects them.

Glad you're interested in trying the program. When you get back to Hawaii we'll hook up and train if you want!

Alfuh
12-26-2005, 05:29 AM
Wow, reps for posting this Dan. This stuff is really interesting to me and ironically I was just planning on getting some bands to include in my training. I would have to get set up with a real power rack to actually try this, but its all very interesting and something I had never really thought of. Thanks man

Anton Chigurh
12-26-2005, 05:55 AM
Wow, reps for posting this Dan. This stuff is really interesting to me and ironically I was just planning on getting some bands to include in my training. I would have to get set up with a real power rack to actually try this, but its all very interesting and something I had never really thought of. Thanks man

Let me know if there's any advice I can offer that help get you started with the bands, bro. They're good shit!

Merlin
12-26-2005, 01:45 PM
I love watching someone use bands for the first time. It's like a baby deer trying to walk.

Alfuh
12-26-2005, 03:44 PM
Let me know if there's any advice I can offer that help get you started with the bands, bro. They're good shit!

Thanks so much man. I'd give reps, but I already did earlier in the thread. I owe you though.

Alfuh
12-26-2005, 03:46 PM
I love watching someone use bands for the first time. It's like a baby deer trying to walk.

Then the baby deer gets the hang of the bands and becomes

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~knp/deer/stag.jpg
:)

Everyone's got to be new at some point.

Anton Chigurh
12-26-2005, 04:32 PM
I love watching someone use bands for the first time. It's like a baby deer trying to walk.

There was kid in the gym one day watching us use the bands. He's not a weak guy, has about a 275-285 bench. Well, we're doing speed work with just the bar and a pair of doubled smalls (maybe 190-ish at lockout), and he insists that we let him try. As soon as he unracked it, it slingshot the bar at his face and smashed his grill. Woops.

Fedorable
12-31-2005, 02:30 AM
It's a bit convoluted, bit I got it after some heavy visualization. I guess all the zen practice came into use afterall! I'll have to wait until I move to my new gym before I try it unfortunately, because my gym doesn't have the right style powerrack.

This is what i do for the bands. Get a 10lbs plate. Loop the band through, wrapped twice with the band coming out of the center hole. Then put 45 lbs plates on top of that up unto the desired weight to make sure the weight doesn't come off the ground. Simple.

Anton Chigurh
12-31-2005, 06:51 AM
This is what i do for the bands. Get a 10lbs plate. Loop the band through, wrapped twice with the band coming out of the center hole. Then put 45 lbs plates on top of that up unto the desired weight to make sure the weight doesn't come off the ground. Simple.

Also a decent way of doing it; only problem is this gets logistically fookin-hard with really heavy bands, especially on squat day.

Where have you been hiding, man?

Fedorable
01-12-2006, 02:15 AM
Also a decent way of doing it; only problem is this gets logistically fookin-hard with really heavy bands, especially on squat day.

Where have you been hiding, man?

I just wrote a whole long response about my lifting and other stuff and it got deleted, looks like i will have to write it again some other time, I am feeling too lazy to write it all again.

Dredd
01-12-2006, 05:31 AM
Fuck this is going to take me a while to read this whole thread.

But sweet, thanks boys.