So I've been trying to lose weight...

[kcb]

For the last week and a half I've been on a low calorie diet consisting of clean food (no milk, fastfood, soda, candy, etc). So far it sucks ass. I'm only eating about 1100 calories a day and on top of that, I'm working out twice a day (PT in the mornings and MMA in the evenings). Even though it has been tough, I have seen some results. When I started this, I weight 225 and as of right now I'm down to 219.

On top of eating cleaner, I'm drinking 13-15 cups of water daily, which has helped keep me hydrated of course. All that water, coupled with a dietary supplement that I'm taking, has really helped me my appetite. Before last week, I probably craved taco bell or burger king every day, but now, I'm barely ever hungry at all. I have to force myself to eat.

Some side effects of all of this are prolonged muscle soreness, which I guess is from the lack of food and extra workouts. I'm hoping all of this will subside, but if it doesn't, I'll probably just increase my caloric intake to 1300-1500 and see if that helps.

I'm keeping a diet journal, too. What I've noticed thus far is me eating just as much protein before, without the extra nasty shit that comes in fastfood. My daily fat intake is on average about 13 grams, while my protein intake is still around 112 grams. Carbs are my highest with around 150-200.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share. I know I'm leaving myself open to dr.r who will most likely come in here and troll. Merlin will probably make an appearance or two and post about 50 links as to why I'm hurting myself. I won't care a whole lot, really.

Goal: I'm trying to drop to 190lbs and possibly fight at 185, if I choose to ever fight again. I might just train and get better and make that decision later, but right now, I really don't feel motivated to get back into the ring. I just want to be involved in the sport somehow.

[Merlin]

Since my name was mentioned I have to respond. I'll keep it simple though and say that 1100 kcal/day is too little and your protein intake is too low. I'll also go out on a limb and say your training is assbackwards for your goals, but I could very easily be wrong because I don't know your training. :P

[DaPunisher]

Since my name was mentioned I have to respond. I'll keep it simple though and say that 1100 kcal/day is too little and your protein intake is too low. I'll also go out on a limb and say your training is assbackwards for your goals, but I could very easily be wrong because I don't know your training. :P


Kcb i intially thought the same thing, 1100kcal is not enough at all. If your really working out twice a day, you can eat a large amount of healthy foods. If you drink alot of soda, over a couple of weeks if you completely stop, youll drop about five lbs from that. No milk is a good one, but you should also think about cutting or eliminating bread from your diet.

[kcb]

I'm eating wheat bread. Wheat bread isn't that bad for you, I don't think.

[Merlin]

White bread and milk aren't bad for you either. But that's neither here nor there.

[kcb]

Since my name was mentioned I have to respond. I'll keep it simple though and say that 1100 kcal/day is too little and your protein intake is too low. I'll also go out on a limb and say your training is assbackwards for your goals, but I could very easily be wrong because I don't know your training. :P

My goal is to drop weight. How is cutting calories and working out assbackwards?

[kcb]

Also, I'm lifting twice a week. Wednesdays I do squats and assistance lifts and Fridays I do bench and assistance lifts. Before and after I run 10 minutes on the treadmill.

[babygetoboy]

yeah, 1100 is way too low. Don't be afraid to eat good amounts of healthy lean proteins, and good healthy unrefined carbs and healthy fats. 1100 will actually slow down your weight loss. Working out that much you will do more damage toy our body without repairing it.

I would spread it over 6 meals, concentrate on a good postworkout maeal to aid recovery, and try to stop eating carbs about 5 hours before bedtime. Stick with good lean proteins and good carbs and fat and you'll spike your metabolism and thyroid production and really burn fat. REmember, protein burns fat.

[kcb]

yeah, 1100 is way too low. Don't be afraid to eat good amounts of healthy lean proteins, and good healthy unrefined carbs and healthy fats. 1100 will actually slow down your weight loss. Working out that much you will do more damage toy our body without repairing it.

I would spread it over 6 meals, concentrate on a good postworkout maeal to aid recovery, and try to stop eating carbs about 5 hours before bedtime. Stick with good lean proteins and good carbs and fat and you'll spike your metabolism and thyroid production and really burn fat. REmember, protein burns fat.

I am actually eating 3 whole meals and 3 snacks. And I'm not starving by any means, as I said I wasn't really hungry at all.

[Sir Gibbs]

Isn't the average male supposed to eat like 2500 calories a day, someone who trains twice a day i'm guessing should eat substancially more then that.

By eating so little i'm under the impression you'll be slowing down your motabolism, effectively starving yourself for no results, damaging various body parts in the proccess.

Also aren't you like 6 foot 7 or something? Fighting at 185 is nuts!

[kcb]

Yeah, I've already decided that 1100 isn't enough, so I'm going to aim for 2000 a day.

And I'm 6'6''. If I can drop to 195lbs or something, cutting 10 pounds of water weight wouldn't be a problem.

[CHH]

You're 6'6", 185 is way too small. I'd just try to stay strong around 220 and cut back from there for fights

[babygetoboy]

6'6?? Why not just be as strong and stay naturally where your body wants you and fight heavy weight?

[kcb]

6'6?? Why not just be as strong and stay naturally where your body wants you and fight heavy weight?

Because I could be stronger at LHW or MW. The only reason why I'm over 210lbs right now is because I'm out of shape.

[hash]

White bread and milk aren't bad for you either. But that's neither here nor there.

You can't be serious.

[DaPunisher]

White bread and milk aren't bad for you either. But that's neither here nor there.


i disagree heartily with this statment.

[kcb]

i disagree heartily with this statment.

As did I.

I will say, I did have a glass of skim milk today for lunch. I'm so sick and tired of water :(

[CHH]

Don't make me....

;) :pGo ahead, you're like a nutritionist. I've heard some mixed reviews on milk, so start with that.

[Merlin]

i disagree heartily with this statment.

Thanks for negging me for our disagreement on the matter.

[kcb]

I used to drink about 5 or 6 gallons of skim milk a week. I just wanted to cut it completely out of my diet for a while to see if I felt any different.

[Alfuh]

I don't know much about milk to be honest. I'll just say this: when I'm trying to put on weight, milk is good. It has carbs and protein. When the time comes to trim up, I won't be having any milk, not really because of health reasons, but because avoiding calories in drinks (sticking to water, tea) will be a priority.

As far as white bread ... I think its stupid to have white bread if you can be eating whole grain bread instead. I really don't care enough about the subject to get into any argument or discussion about it, but I am interested in what Merlin will have to say about it ...

[fightguy]

What do you guys do to get your daily calcium if you don't drink milk?

[CHH]

-- so it's hard to write much about it's efficacy without a specific question. I will say that I don't think any food is inherently bad just as no food is inherently good or "clean".Will milk turn me gay?

[DaPunisher]

What do you guys do to get your daily calcium if you don't drink milk?


for ten bucks, you can get a bottle of calcium tablets from just about anywhere that will last you 3 months if taken daily.

The thing with the milk commercials about milk helping prevent osteoprosis and it gives you strong bones is just them trying to sell you milk. Milk is not the wonderful nutritional substance its made out to be. Its got some good stuff in it, but nothing you can't find anywhere else in fodds and such. I haven't drank milk in probably about a year and i dont plan on starting anytime soon.

[Merlin]

Will milk turn me gay?

It will if you drink it while sticking your erect penis in a guy's ass.

Assuming correlation equals causation. :cool:

[kcb]

Okay, so I had about 2000 calories today and feel a shitload better.

[fightguy]

for ten bucks, you can get a bottle of calcium tablets from just about anywhere that will last you 3 months if taken daily.

The thing with the milk commercials about milk helping prevent osteoprosis and it gives you strong bones is just them trying to sell you milk. Milk is not the wonderful nutritional substance its made out to be. Its got some good stuff in it, but nothing you can't find anywhere else in fodds and such. I haven't drank milk in probably about a year and i dont plan on starting anytime soon.
Isn't calcium carbonate pretty much worthless as far as being absorbed by the body though? If I remember correctly it is a much better idea to buy calcium citrate.

Thoughts?

[MyAssIsFartsy]

Stop being a queerbait and fight at your natural weight, Aids-man.



(seriously, though, I hope you start eating more, especially if you're trAining twice a day)

[kcb]

I am eating more.

And you guys keep saying "fight at your natural weight", but what you guys don't understand is that 220lbs isn't my natural weight. I'm naturally supposed to be a lot smaller. 220lbs doesn't sound like a whole lot at 6'6'', but it is for my frame. I don't have a Frank Mir or Tim Sylvia structure. My hands are huge, but my wrists are probably smaller when compared to other guys who are 6'6'' as are my ankles. When I'm eating right and exercising, I'd say my natural weight would be around 205 or 210lbs.

[kcb]

In other words, me at 220lbs = eating taco bell and mcdonalds 2-3 times a day, playing online poker, and not exercising except twice a week.

[Alfuh]

Well 220 out of shape is only 3-4 months away from 220 with little bf. Its all just weights and hard work. And there is no way that you wouldn't still have a HUGE reach advantage from the ordinary LHW at 6'6". I think you should concentrate on adding 10-15lbs of muscle and then gradually lean out to the point where you could be a HUGE 205.

[Merlin]

Here's a perfect example of one of the bad models I mentioned:

Comment in:

* Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005 Dec;159(12):1187-8; author reply 1188.


Milk, dairy fat, dietary calcium, and weight gain: a longitudinal study of adolescents.

Berkey CS, Rockett HR, Willett WC, Colditz GA.

Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. catherine.berkey@channing.harvard.edu

BACKGROUND: Milk is promoted as a healthy beverage for children, but some researchers believe that estrone and whey protein in dairy products may cause weight gain. Others claim that dairy calcium promotes weight loss. OBJECTIVE: To assess the associations between milk, calcium from foods and beverages, dairy fat, and weight change over time.Design, Subjects, and Outcome Measure We followed a cohort of 12 829 US children, aged 9 to 14 years in 1996, who returned questionnaires by mail through 1999. Children annually reported their height and weight and completed food frequency questionnaires regarding typical past-year intakes. We estimated associations between annual change in body mass index (BMI) (calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared) and our dietary factors, adjusted for adolescent growth and development, race, physical activity, inactivity, and (in some models) total energy intake. RESULTS: Children who drank more than 3 servings a day of milk gained more in BMI than those who drank smaller amounts (boys: beta +/- SE, 0.076 +/- 0.038 [P = .04] more than those who drank 1 to 2 glasses a day; girls: beta +/- SE, 0.093 +/- 0.034 [P = .007] more than those who drank 0 to 0.5 glass a day). For boys, milk intake was associated with small BMI increases during the year (beta +/- SE, 0.019 +/- 0.009 per serving a day; P = .03); results were similar for girls (beta +/- SE, 0.015 +/- 0.007 per serving a day; P = .04). Quantities of 1% milk (boys) and skim milk (girls) were significantly associated with BMI gain, as was total dietary calcium intake. Multivariate analyses of milk, dairy fat, calcium, and total energy intake suggested that energy was the most important predictor of weight gain. Analyses of year-to-year changes in milk, calcium, dairy fat, and total energy intakes provided generally similar conclusions; an increase in energy intake from the prior year predicted BMI gain in boys (P = .003) and girls (P = .03). CONCLUSIONS: Children who drank the most milk gained more weight, but the added calories appeared responsible. Contrary to our hypotheses, dietary calcium and skim and 1% milk were associated with weight gain, but dairy fat was not. Drinking large amounts of milk may provide excess energy to some children.

PMID: 15939853 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bolded part = "Well no shit!"

[kcb]

Here's a perfect example of one of the bad models I mentioned:

Comment in:

* Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005 Dec;159(12):1187-8; author reply 1188.


Milk, dairy fat, dietary calcium, and weight gain: a longitudinal study of adolescents.

Berkey CS, Rockett HR, Willett WC, Colditz GA.

Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. catherine.berkey@channing.harvard.edu

BACKGROUND: Milk is promoted as a healthy beverage for children, but some researchers believe that estrone and whey protein in dairy products may cause weight gain. Others claim that dairy calcium promotes weight loss. OBJECTIVE: To assess the associations between milk, calcium from foods and beverages, dairy fat, and weight change over time.Design, Subjects, and Outcome Measure We followed a cohort of 12 829 US children, aged 9 to 14 years in 1996, who returned questionnaires by mail through 1999. Children annually reported their height and weight and completed food frequency questionnaires regarding typical past-year intakes. We estimated associations between annual change in body mass index (BMI) (calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared) and our dietary factors, adjusted for adolescent growth and development, race, physical activity, inactivity, and (in some models) total energy intake. RESULTS: Children who drank more than 3 servings a day of milk gained more in BMI than those who drank smaller amounts (boys: beta +/- SE, 0.076 +/- 0.038 [P = .04] more than those who drank 1 to 2 glasses a day; girls: beta +/- SE, 0.093 +/- 0.034 [P = .007] more than those who drank 0 to 0.5 glass a day). For boys, milk intake was associated with small BMI increases during the year (beta +/- SE, 0.019 +/- 0.009 per serving a day; P = .03); results were similar for girls (beta +/- SE, 0.015 +/- 0.007 per serving a day; P = .04). Quantities of 1% milk (boys) and skim milk (girls) were significantly associated with BMI gain, as was total dietary calcium intake. Multivariate analyses of milk, dairy fat, calcium, and total energy intake suggested that energy was the most important predictor of weight gain. Analyses of year-to-year changes in milk, calcium, dairy fat, and total energy intakes provided generally similar conclusions; an increase in energy intake from the prior year predicted BMI gain in boys (P = .003) and girls (P = .03). CONCLUSIONS: Children who drank the most milk gained more weight, but the added calories appeared responsible. Contrary to our hypotheses, dietary calcium and skim and 1% milk were associated with weight gain, but dairy fat was not. Drinking large amounts of milk may provide excess energy to some children.

PMID: 15939853 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bolded part = "Well no shit!"

Wow, yeah, that does seem like bullshit. I'm not a big fan of BMI anyway. I'm probably preaching to the chorus here, but BMI reflects fuckall about someone's body composition, which is really what I think is important.

who returned questionnaires by mail

wtf?

[Johnny Toetags]

Remember when I posted a thread some months back that I was up to 215? Well I'm down to 190 now - just upped my water intake, stuck with the BJJ and cut out the junk off. Yay me.

[kcb]

Remember when I posted a thread some months back that I was up to 215? Well I'm down to 190 now - just upped my water intake, stuck with the BJJ and cut out the junk off. Yay me.

And you upped the sex. Don't forget that.

[Merlin]

And you upped the sex. Don't forget that.

Definitely.

[Alfuh]

Merlin, when you say that no food (and in this case white bread) is good or bad are you talking about the moral labels that people give food or are you actually claiming that white bread is nutritionally superior to, or on par with, whole wheat bread? I just want some clairification on the matter. As far as I know wheat bread is nutritionally superior to white bread, and between the two it is a much better choice to include in a diet.

[Johnny Toetags]

And you upped the sex. Don't forget that.


true. very true. probably a bigger factor that my impoved diet.

[DaPunisher]

so kcb all bullshit aside hows your weight loss going?

[Merlin]

I have more of an off-topic question...I'm still pretty new here, but why is kcb all negged to hell?

[Alfuh]

Wheat bread is nutritionally superior to white bread, yes. My problem is the notion of "clean" foods. Most people don't understand human metabolism like they think they do. Nutrition and fatloss are two separate entities. People have a hard time distinguishing.

Okay, just checking. Thanks for the clarification.

And kcb is negged to oblivion because that's the way he likes it. He wanted Dyno to erase all reps he had, but then once people started repping him he wanted it done again. So Dyno just game him max negs instead.

[Cheney]

You know there are quite a few diet ideas that sound better than your approach to it. One that I find particularly useful if you want to keep/build your muscle while decreasing fat can be found on Dr. John Berardi's website. My friend was one this diet for about 2-3 weeks and actually took in more calories than he did before an lost about 17 pounds.

What you do is continuously eat meals through out the day I usually have about 5-6 meals. The thing is what you eat and when you eat it. That being high-quality proteins, slow-digesting and fast-digesting carbs, and helthy fats. You should look into getting some fish oil, it can help you boost your metabolism up to 400 extra calories. Also there is was a recipe for a Super Shake that Dr. Berardi had put in an article in Men's Health.

[kcb]

so kcb all bullshit aside hows your weight loss going?

It's going good still. I'm about 219lbs now, which is a 6 pound drop. I'm getting my ass kicked in MMA every day, but that's cool.

[Merlin]

My friend was one this diet for about 2-3 weeks and actually took in more calories than he did before an lost about 17 pounds.


I'll assume he started exercising when he began dieting.

[DaPunisher]

It's going good still. I'm about 219lbs now, which is a 6 pound drop. I'm getting my ass kicked in MMA every day, but that's cool.


keep it up dude!

[dude]

I'm dropping weight too. Woo woo. I need to find a scale and fast. In January I weighed 239, I'm betting 230 and under now.


I can just notice my stomach/other areas of fat disappearing. Woo.

[Alfuh]

Good job Cleaver. Keep it up bro

[DaPunisher]

I'm dropping weight too. Woo woo. I need to find a scale and fast. In January I weighed 239, I'm betting 230 and under now.


I can just notice my stomach/other areas of fat disappearing. Woo.


syphilis will do that to a man.

[kcb]

I went and lifted today. Afterwards I ate. It was fun.
I'm still at 219.

[DaPunisher]

I went and lifted today. Afterwards I ate. It was fun.
I'm still at 219.


did you do any cardio today?

[kcb]

did you do any cardio today?

Nope. I'm taking a rest day.

[kcb]

So today I'm still resting, but I think I'm going to head to the gym and play some raquetteball. I had a cheat day yesterday where I had a few burgers and fries, but I'm back on the wagon today. I'll probably take cheat days once a week, if that, because I still like eating burgers and shit.

Tomorrow is MMA again. It'll look something like this:

A.M. - PT (circuit training)

P.M. - Grappling (AKA, getting my ass kicked for 2 hours).

Between those two workouts, I probably burn about 700 or 800 calories. Not too bad. My goal for calories tomorrow is 2000.

[DaPunisher]

i found its a good idea for cheat days to add furit and shit into the meal,

for example:

say you get a 2 cheeseburger value meal from mcdonalds, make sure the meal is medium size, and eat an apple and a banana with it.

[kcb]

Yesterday I stuck to the diet just as I said. It wasn't all that hard, really. No real hunger pangs for fast food or anything unhealthy.

Today I did PT this morning, which was a complete joke because I didn't even try nor did anyone else for that matter. It was fucking like 40 degrees outside and my group pretty much just slacked off for 40 minutes. In fact, it was so cold, I didn't even work up a sweat.

Drank about 4 cups of water already this morning. I'll eat breakfast here soon. I'm thinking once piece of toast with peanut butter and 2 servings of my fake eggs.

[Johnny Toetags]

US military slacking off?!?

[DaPunisher]

2 servings of feggs?

[kcb]

US military slacking off?!?

No one slacking off in this thread, JTT. If you're looking for the shiftless, dumbass portion of the board, I think the foreign language forum is

------------->

that way.



:)

[DaPunisher]

No one slacking off in this thread, JTT. If you're looking for the shiftless, dumbass portion of the board, I think the foreign language forum is

------------->

that way.



:)


i believe delt sig is hanging there.

[kcb]

So I didn't go train today. For the last few weeks, everytime I play raquettball, I get this gay little click in my knee. I have to be careful how I turn, because my knee pops and it's sort of painful. There isn't any swelling and it doesn't hurt when I run or walk, I just have to be careful with turning. I googled some of my symptoms and they're consistent with a meniscus tair, which is gay. If I stay off of it for a couple days, then everything goes away, but the second I play raquetball, it comes back. I guess I'm just going to have to quit playing such a dangerous sport.

[kcb]

Oh, and I had some chinese food. Ate some sushi and some chow mein and it was pretty good.

[DaPunisher]

So I didn't go train today. For the last few weeks, everytime I play raquettball, I get this gay little click in my knee. I have to be careful how I turn, because my knee pops and it's sort of painful. There isn't any swelling and it doesn't hurt when I run or walk, I just have to be careful with turning. I googled some of my symptoms and they're consistent with a meniscus tair, which is gay. If I stay off of it for a couple days, then everything goes away, but the second I play raquetball, it comes back. I guess I'm just going to have to quit playing such a dangerous sport.


This shit sounds familiar, i'm betting you tore some cartilidge which is much less serious. This shit happened to me. My knee would click and It would get tight when i would try and bend it completely.

The doctor prescribed me some slightly stronger than over the counter anti-inflammatories and it was gone after awhile.

[kcb]

This shit sounds familiar, i'm betting you tore some cartilidge which is much less serious. This shit happened to me. My knee would click and It would get tight when i would try and bend it completely.

The doctor prescribed me some slightly stronger than over the counter anti-inflammatories and it was gone after awhile.

That's good news, mofo!
While I'm waiting to get in to the doctor, should I take Motrin or Tylenol?

[slaphappy]

Get a tape worm... or the AIDS. Both are excellent ways of losing weight.

[DaPunisher]

That's good news, mofo!
While I'm waiting to get in to the doctor, should I take Motrin or Tylenol?



motrin

[kcb]

Seeing a doctor tomorrow morning. Hopefully everything goes okay.

[kcb]

Went to the doc. She said it was tendonitis and gave me some meds. She said no raquetball or anything where I'll be making any sudden turns. So, I can probably grapple, but no stand-up.

[Bishop]

both of my calves cramped up on me when I was playing volleyball....I went out, stretched, then got back in. I just said screw it and just toughed it out; it hurt :(

the thing is, I've been drinking water and a glass of milk per meal, but I'm still cramping up. I stretched for a good 10 minutes before we started as well.

oh yeah, I've dropped 5lbs since I've been out here. I haven't done any cardio, just lifting

[Sir Gibbs]

both of my calves cramped up on me when I was playing volleyball....I went out, stretched, then got back in. I just said screw it and just toughed it out; it hurt :(

the thing is, I've been drinking water and a glass of milk per meal, but I'm still cramping up. I stretched for a good 10 minutes before we started as well.

oh yeah, I've dropped 5lbs since I've been out here. I haven't done any cardio, just lifting

Eat some bananas

[Bishop]

you know, I had 2 yesterday and another for lunch today

Couture: Drink gatorade and eat a banana, get some potasium in your body...." - TUF

[Sir Gibbs]

you know, I had 2 yesterday and another for lunch today

Couture: Drink gatorade and eat a banana, get some potasium in your body...." - TUF

Haha, i started eating loads of them because when i first started bjj i was cramping up loads. One of the instructors, Kildare, who was fresh in from brazil and barely spoke any english came over to me and motioned to east something and said 'banana'. Which i found hysterical.

Shortly after this that TUF episode you mentioned came out which sealed the deal.

[DaPunisher]

bananas are nature's edible yellow penis.

[kcb]

Today I went and lifted weights.

Squats - 7 sets. I eventually worked my way up to a 1RM
SLDL - 3 X 8
Hamstring Curls - 3 x 8
Weighted Sit-Ups - 3 x 12

I was going to throw in some lunges, but my legs were too taxed from squatting. I might decrease the sets, because I'd really like to do lunges as a part of my workout.

Cardio: HIIT jump rope. 5 minutes, but I still had plenty of gas left over. I'll probably increase it to 10 minutes next time.

[MyAssIsFartsy]

Went to the doc. She said it was tendonitis and gave me some meds. She said no raquetball or anything where I'll be making any sudden turns. So, I can probably grapple, but no stand-up.


Wouldn't glucosamine help that?

[kcb]

Wouldn't glucosamine help that?

Yes, but it takes months before that stuff starts working. Or so my bottle says. Anyway, she just gave me some anti-inflammatory meds and it fails 100% better now.

[MyAssIsFartsy]

^
Rock on. But you might want to consider gluc for the future. In my experience it doesn't take long for you to start noticing results. Definitely not months, in my case.

[Sir Gibbs]

So have you stepped on a scale recently Brawley? What are the numbers looking like?

And yeah, glucosamine and cod liver oil pwn for joints. Like you say the results take like weeks or months to be noticeable but they're both relatively cheap and do wonders in the long run.

[kcb]

Yeah, I stepped on the scale yesterday and I'm right around 218 or 217. I didn't work out as much this last week because of my knee.

[kcb]

Today for squadron PT we did calisthenics and then ran 3 miles. For breakfast I had a package of regular oatmeal and 20 oz of water.

[Alfuh]

Today for squadron PT we did calisthenics and then ran 3 miles.

This is the shit that Delta was crying about? Seriously?

[kcb]

This is the shit that Delta was crying about? Seriously?

Delta is a special case. Don't hold him against the military.

[kcb]

Yesterday I did really awesome in MMA class. I rolled for the first hour or so and didn't get submitted at all, except for a few times when I rolled with the 350lbs guy because he squashed me and I couldn't breath.

I even got a few submissions myself. One time I got an arm bar. I took the guy's back and he rolled to his side and gave me an arm. I snatched it up and rolled back and he tapped. Another time I caught this guy in an arm bar, but he lost his balance and I lost control of his arm. I transistioned to his back as he got to his knees and secured a rear naked choke. It's crazy how much better I am when I'm taking in more than a 1000 calories a day.

Then for the last hour I worked stand-up. Nothing big. Just 40 kicks on each leg. The guy holding the pads was giving me pointers on how to cut my hips more for the kicks, but said I still had really good power. After that, I went over and watched Alan Belcher do some stand-up and he just explained their philosophy on stand-up. Pretty much, we don't finesse anything. We don't jab much and only work on power shots. It sounds like stuff that The Pitt guys work on.

Today I did 7 sets of bench and worked up to a 1RM. 3 x 8 with DB OHP and 3 x 8 with skull crushers. After that, I did a little bit of grip work. I held an 85 lb dumbbell for as long as I could for 3 sets. To work on my traps a bit, I did a static shrug with each set. Pretty good work out all together.

[DeltaSigChi4]

This is the shit that Delta was crying about? Seriously?

Excuse me. In case you're too stupid to read I'm in a combat zone. You know ... people dying all around and all that wonderfully Republican party-approved stuff. Furthermore, my work schedule is a tad bit more pressing than the air farce's (12 hour days - not incl training). Lastly, I do PT EVERYDAY. I don't need an idiot who doesn't know how to keep himself physically fit mandating to me what exercises I'm going to do and where I'm going to do them. Therefore, don't try to simplify matters you have no understanding of. Also, good luck with your weight loss, OP.

E

[Alfuh]

Excuse me. Bitch Bitch Bitch. I'm in the Army. Bitch Bitch Bitch. Did I mention I'm in the Army? Bitch Bitch Bitch. I don't like Bush because he doesn't let me go to UFC! Bitch Bitch Bitch. I'm in the Army you know.
E

:rolleyes:

[kcb]

:rolleyes:

ROFL. My sentiments exactly.

lol @ air farce. You know what that tells me? Somebody didn't score high enough to get into the best branch in the U.S. military. Unlucky? Not for us.

[DeltaSigChi4]

Listen guy. This isn't the place to discuss/debate that. But so you can be put at ease, I'm Military Intelligence, therefore, my scores were high enough to enlist in whatever fucking branch that I so desired. The whole "we're smarter than you" angle your garbage branch decides to put forth is a complete joke. But stay disciplined on your weight program. I'm sure you'll go far.

E

[kcb]

Listen guy. This isn't the place to discuss/debate that. But so you can be put at ease, I'm Military Intelligence, therefore, my scores were high enough to enlist in whatever fucking branch that I so desired. The whole "we're smarter than you" angle your garbage branch decides to put forth is a complete joke. But stay disciplined on your weight program. I'm sure you'll go far.

E

Army: 31 QT.

Air Force: 40 QT.

The proof is in the pudding. On average, we are smarter and I would even venture to say better behaved than the bullet catchers you work with/for. And if it is true that you scored high, but still chose the Army, then that says a whole lot about your judgement. I'm not complaining though. We need people just like you to dig our ditches and provide a human shield.

my work schedule is a tad bit more pressing...

Yes, so pressing that even in Iraq you are able to post nearly 5 hours a day. Man, you are douchebag.

Have a good day. Hope you eat some mortars soon.

[dude]

If Americans fighting for the same thing can't even get a long how are they supossed to beat Canada? They're not.

[DaPunisher]

If Americans fighting for the same thing can't even get a long how are they supossed to beat Canada? They're not.


blasphemy

[kcb]

I've lost a few more pounds and am now down to 215lbs. I'm still eating really good and exercising 6 days a week. My weekly routine goes something like this:

Monday:

AM
Squadron PT which consist of either circuit training or a 3 mile run and calisthenics.

PM
Squat and assistance work.

Tuesday:

AM
Squadron PT which consist of either circuit training or a 3 mile run and calisthenics.

PM
MMA

Wednesday:

AM
Bench and assistance work.

Thursday:

AM
Squadron PT which consist of either circuit training or a 3 mile run and calisthenics.

PM
MMA

Friday:

AM
Deadlift and assistance work.

Saturday:

OFF

Sunday:

PM

MMA.

[WrestlerV]

You seem to be doing very good. Keep eating right and working out regularly and you will reach whatever goal you're trying to meet. Don't expect it to be soon though... losing weight the healthy way takes time. Cutting weight for a fight, on the other hand, doesn't take time. I would much rather lose weight then have my weight jumping up and down, though. Good luck.

[kcb]

As far as my diet goes, I eat 4 meals a day.

Breakfast (usually around 8:30AM after PT) consist of either oatmeal with protein powder, generic eggs, or peanut butter and jelly on whole wheat toast.

Around 11PM I go and have lunch which consist of some type of lean meat like baked chicken or fish, cottage cheese, and a vegetable of some sort. Sometimes in place of the vegetable I eat some beans.

Around 3PM or 4PM I have dinner. Sometimes I'll make myself an egg sandwhich (with my generic eggs) on whole wheat, some lean chicken breast, broccoli, pasta made with whole wheat noodles with vegetables, or whatever else I can find. I try to take in some quality carbs to help me make it through MMA class or to recover from yesterday's workout.

Around 6PM or 7PM I have a snack. Maybe some cottage cheese, broccoli with cheese, whole wheat toast with organic jelly, or special K cereal with soy milk. This is the last meal of the day.

30 minutes to an hour before bed, I have a protein shake. I mix in a half serving of no sugar fudge jello mix, a full serving of protein, and a cup or cup and a half of soy milk.

[WrestlerV]

Why not eat six meals a day instead of four?

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/bodybuilding-supplements-guides/fat-loss-tips-3.htm

[kcb]

Why not eat six meals a day instead of four?

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/bodybuilding-supplements-guides/fat-loss-tips-3.htm

I would if I had time. I don't like having meals after 7 or 8 and I don't have a place to store a homemade meal at work, so I'm stuck. 4 meals is good enough, anyway.

[MyAssIsFartsy]

What do you mean by "generic eggs"? Don't tell me it's that freeze-dried crap.

[kcb]

What do you mean by "generic eggs"? Don't tell me it's that freeze-dried crap.

It's the stuff that comes in a carton and you cook it up in the microwave.

[Bird]

ive gained 15 lbs of muscle in the last 2 months. no weight training. just jiujitsu. im the heaviest ive ever been but its all muscle. i cut alot of fat. but i wanted to be leaner. oh well.

[MyAssIsFartsy]

It's the stuff that comes in a carton and you cook it up in the microwave.


Good god, do yourself a favor and eat real ones if you can manage. Or at least real food....

[Merlin]

Why not eat six meals a day instead of four?

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/bodybuilding-supplements-guides/fat-loss-tips-3.htm

The author of this is a moron. 4 meals a day is fine. As is 3. Regardless of goals.

[DaPunisher]

It's the stuff that comes in a carton and you cook it up in the microwave.


thats fucked up dude

[WrestlerV]

4 meals a day is fine. As is 3.

Of course three meals or even six meals a day is fine. I'm not saying that it isn't. But it also depends on what goals you want to accomplish and how you accomplish it by eating certain amounts every day.

Alot of experts want you to believe that eating three meals a day is good, and while it still is, eating six meals a day will help you to lose weight even faster. This is because when you eat six meals a day, in smaller potions, you absorb nutrients more efficiently. The body can only handle so much at one serving without eliminating or storing excess nutrients.

Also, eating six meals a day will help the body's thermic effect (which will burn 10% more calories), lower your cholesteral, and help prevent starvation (eating throughout the day rather then waiting to eat).

[Merlin]

This is because when you eat six meals a day, in smaller potions, you absorb nutrients more efficiently.

You're basing this theory on what?

The body can only handle so much at one serving without eliminating or storing excess nutrients.

Yes, and the difference between 3 meals vs 6 meals makes no difference.

Also, eating six meals a day will help the body's thermic effect (which will burn 10% more calories), lower your cholesteral, and help prevent starvation (eating throughout the day rather then waiting to eat).

10% huh? WOW! Sorry, but no.

[WrestlerV]

You're basing this theory on what?

I'm just basing it on what I have read and what alot of experts have agreed on. I'm not saying this the a gospel truth but it is supported by alot of health and nutrition experts.


Yes, and the difference between 3 meals vs 6 meals makes no difference.

http://www.fitstep.com/Library/Tips/Tips/eat-more-weigh-less.htm
http://www.bodytrans.com/nutrition_guide.htm

"How often should you eat? Some experts say you need six small meals a day, while traditionalists stick with the 3-squares-a-day principle. But which one is right for you? You always have to take your own individual needs into consideration when listening to diet advice that is meant for the masses. If you?re always on the go and can?t imagine finding the time to sit down three times a day for a meal, you?re probably more of a grazer and it would be pointless to try and change that. The more smaller meals you eat in a day, the better your metabolism is likely to be. But your pitfall is that you?re also probably more likely to grab anything that?s nearby when you?re hungry, which means you need to plan your mini-meals ahead of time and bring healthy foods from home that you can munch on all day. On the flip side, if you enjoy sitting down to breakfast, lunch and dinner each day, you have to watch out for portion sizes, as well as what you?re snacking on between meals. Neither method is necessarily better than the other, as long as you?re aware of the ups and downs of your eating habits. So whether you eat three meals a day or graze from dawn to dusk, just remember that the most important thing is to do what works best for you, the best way that you can. "

10% huh? WOW! Sorry, but no.


"Eating the same calories spread out over smaller meals four to six times during the day is supposed to raise the body's thermic effect, resulting in 10% more calories being burned, according to Leslie Bonci, R.D., director of sports nutrition at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center."

http://www.askmen.com/feeder/askmenRSS_article_print_2005.php?ID=http://www.askmen.com/sports/foodcourt_60/69_eating_well.html

[MyAssIsFartsy]

The author of this is a moron. 4 meals a day is fine. As is 3. Regardless of goals.


No. You're a moron.

[Merlin]

Yes, and the difference between 3 meals vs 6 meals makes no difference.
Neither method is necessarily better than the other, as long as you’re aware of the ups and downs of your eating habits. So whether you eat three meals a day or graze from dawn to dusk, just remember that the most important thing is to do what works best for you, the best way that you can. "

I don't really see the difference in what you bolded and what I said.



"Eating the same calories spread out over smaller meals four to six times during the day is supposed to raise the body's thermic effect, resulting in 10% more calories being burned, according to Leslie Bonci, R.D., director of sports nutrition at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center."

http://www.askmen.com/feeder/askmenRSS_article_print_2005.php?ID=http://www.askmen.com/sports/foodcourt_60/69_eating_well.html
[/quote]
Well, she's wrong. Plain and simple. You can't put an arbitrary number like that on anything having to do with the body's metabolism. And the actual number is more like a fraction of a fraction of what she's stating, making the effect completely negligible. I won't bother to look up the actual info, I'm too busy here, just wanted to clarify it. If you think I'm wrong, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[WrestlerV]

I don't really see the difference in what you bolded and what I said.

What I meant was that neither is technically better then the other (when you can control what and how you eat) but they DO have different effects... so eating four meals a day, or three, is different then eating six. And each have DIFFERENT goals because they help you to achieve different things.

[DeltaSigChi4]

The Surgeon General recommends more than three (3) meals a day and I thought it was UNIVERSALLY-accepted already that more smaller meals are better than few large meals ... but Merlin seems to know what he's talking about ...

E

[DeltaSigChi4]

The Surgeon General recommends more than three (3) meals a day and I thought it was UNIVERSALLY-accepted already that more smaller meals are better than few large meals ... but Merlin seems to know what he's talking about ...

E

[DeltaSigChi4]

Oh, and I forgot my sarcasm tags. You know where they go.

E

[spartanruskie]

Wow I know I'm probably going to get hell for this but in this situation i agree with merlin. There is really no sound scientific studies backing the whole 6 meals a day lifestyle. You also have to remember that until recently, and when i say recently i mean within the last 5 or 6 years, the only people advocating this approach were bodybuilders and powerlifters majority of whom are on insane amounts of steroids ( i can say this cause i'm one of them). The reasoning behind this is steroids increase your body's ability to absorb protein so the more you ingested the better, that was the consensus anyway. With that said it was also a typical belief one needed to consume at minimal 1 gram per pound of bodyweight in protein most however consumed 1.5 to yes 3grams of protein per lb of bw. Now i'm 375 lets say i eat 2g per lb 375x2=750grams of protein (thats like 3000 cal from protein alone) and spaced over 3 meals is 250 grams of protein as apposed to 125 grams spaced over 6 meals. It was to make ingesting so much food easier not to increase our metabolic rates via our bodies having to burn off the food throughout the day. So it comes down to how many calories you're taking in versus how many calories you are burning, and if the amount of calories is easier to ingest if you distribute them through smaller meals throughout the day. I won't lie I eat 7-8 times a day, however my calculated average RMR from all 4 methods i know is 4112 calories to maintain my bodyweight with no activity try eating that many calories in 3 meals and see if you energy decreases throughout the week and no going crazy at fast food restaurants where one burger can get you 1000 plus cal doesnt count

[spartanruskie]

Ummmmm so i posted that whole thing just to say i agree with merlin and that whether you eat 3 or 6 times a day the only thing that matters is calories in vs. calories out *shakes head* self pwned

[( o Y o )]

I'd cut your bread totally, get rid of the jello (even zero cal stuff will effect your blood sugar), make sure your peanut butter is All Natural.

Smaller more frequent meals are generally seen as better as your blood sugar remains more stable and you don't have the high/low energy you get with three larger meals. It also helps spead your metabolism which will lead to faster weight reduction.

On top of that you need to drink a shitload of water. I would be starting on 3 liters a day, and an extra liter on each day you work out. If you drink caffine throughout the day.....you need even more. The less fluid you take in, the more your body will retain.

[( o Y o )]

Oh, and get rid of that soy milk. No reason to drink that.....I would argue you are doing yourself far more harm than good with it.

Go to pubmed and do a search on either soy or tofu.

[Merlin]

Oh, and get rid of that soy milk. No reason to drink that.....I would argue you are doing yourself far more harm than good with it.

I would disagree. I would also state that regardless of what guru you read, metabolism doesn't change on a meal to meal basis.

[DeltaSigChi4]

Let me get this perfectly straight ... if I go a day without eaiting, my metabolism won't change?

*awaits response before doling out negs*

E

[Merlin]

Let me get this perfectly straight ... if I go a day without eaiting, my metabolism won't change?

*awaits response before doling out negs*

E

Feel free to neg me. Won't hurt my feelings in the slightest.

[Alfuh]

If I catch some time I'll explain a bit to you later. In the meantime, feel free to neg me. Won't hurt my feelings in the slightest.

I'm interested in what you have to say in the matter, so don't forget.

[kcb]

Just letting you all know, I'm probably going to switch it up and eat 6 smaller meals a day. I think it'll help with my hunger and that's why I'm doing it, not because of any scientific mumbo jumbo.

During the middle of the day, I get really hungry because that's when I go the longest without eating. To help, I'm breaking up my lunch so I have the same amount, just two hours apart.

Just updating the thread.

[Alfuh]

Good call kcb, I find that splitting up meals is easiest and works best. I've heard arguments on both sides of the glycemic index, effects on metabolism, nutrient absorption, etc. etc.

When it comes down to it, it just makes more sense to split it up. If you are bulking then as spartanruskie said, you will be able to split up the total calories you need so you aren't trying to ingest 2,000 calories a meal. If you are cutting then you are already going to be hypocaloric, the last thing you want is to have to eat less and have an empty stomach for proglonged periods of time. Always having a little something in your stomach is better than eating larger meals then going hungry in between meals.

*shrugs*
Just seems like common sense to me.

[kcb]

Yeah, totally.

I was never opposed to it, but it just wasn't affecting that much before. This week, I'm getting super hungry and then craving cookies and cakes and shit.

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

I've been experimenting lately with what i've been eating at lunch. I hate bringin my lunch to work and only get one time to eat during the day usually. anyway, i eat lunch around 11am and don't get dinner until 6 or 7p. i noticed that if i have carbs during lunch i get REALLY hungry around 4 or so due to my blood sugar levels dropping. so i have been eating a chef salad (no croutons or any carbs other than what is in chic peas or veggies). I tallied the salad and its about 900 calories and 30 g's of fat. I'm not hungry until 8 or 9pm. It is really about calories in vs calories out (and fat stored IMO) and the chef salad really helps because i eat and snack less at night.

i may switch up my diet a bit and try a smaller salad and have some unsalted peanuts or something in the afternoon.

[MyAssIsFartsy]

I would also state that regardless of what guru you read, metabolism doesn't change on a meal to meal basis.



The thing is, you can't make a blanket statement because people have different bodies and metabolisms.

[MyAssIsFartsy]

I've been experimenting lately with what i've been eating at lunch. I hate bringin my lunch to work and only get one time to eat during the day usually. anyway, i eat lunch around 11am and don't get dinner until 6 or 7p. i noticed that if i have carbs during lunch i get REALLY hungry around 4 or so due to my blood sugar levels dropping. so i have been eating a chef salad (no croutons or any carbs other than what is in chic peas or veggies). I tallied the salad and its about 900 calories and 30 g's of fat. I'm not hungry until 8 or 9pm. It is really about calories in vs calories out (and fat stored IMO) and the chef salad really helps because i eat and snack less at night.

i may switch up my diet a bit and try a smaller salad and have some unsalted peanuts or something in the afternoon.


I think you'd be okay with the carbs as long as you combine them with protein and a little fat.

[spartanruskie]

The thing is, you can't make a blanket statement because people have different bodies and metabolisms.

See I get what merlin is saying and i see where you're coming from but this whole metabolism thing is on the same level as, "I'm fat due to my genetics" BS. Before i get any crap hear me out I don't know how many times I have to tell people you're not skinny due to your fast metabolism you're just not eating enough or you're not fat due to your slow metabolism you're just eating too much. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying everyone's metabolism is the same it's just not as important as insulin control. The ability to control this has more to do with fat loss and muscle gain when it comes to setting dieting parameters. Go reread some of your diet gurus fantastical articles and you'll see it mentioned over and over if it's not the point of the article is to sell you on something not neccessarily a product just their lastest theory. Insulin control is the main reason behind these so called gurus advocating multiple meals it helps spur off insulin spikes and blood suger binges (so to speak) and create an atmosphere in your body that is more suited to increased gh and igf-1 levels. Bonus in that atmosphere your body tends to shuttle fat out and show increases in thyroid production. Again as Alfuh so eloquently put it "common sense stuff."

[spartanruskie]

Also the whole carbs are evil vs. carbs are good thing comes down to insulin sensitivity as well. Personally even a well portioned amount of brown rice is the devil to me, I do better on veggies and fruits which i limit to berries and apples

[MyAssIsFartsy]

See I get what merlin is saying and i see where you're coming from but this whole metabolism thing is on the same level as, "I'm fat due to my genetics" BS. Before i get any crap hear me out I don't know how many times I have to tell people you're not skinny due to your fast metabolism you're just not eating enough or you're not fat due to your slow metabolism you're just eating too much. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying everyone's metabolism is the same it's just not as important as insulin control. The ability to control this has more to do with fat loss and muscle gain when it comes to setting dieting parameters. Go reread some of your diet gurus fantastical articles and you'll see it mentioned over and over if it's not the point of the article is to sell you on something not neccessarily a product just their lastest theory. Insulin control is the main reason behind these so called gurus advocating multiple meals it helps spur off insulin spikes and blood suger binges (so to speak) and create an atmosphere in your body that is more suited to increased gh and igf-1 levels. Bonus in that atmosphere your body tends to shuttle fat out and show increases in thyroid production. Again as Alfuh so eloquently put it "common sense stuff."



I definitely don't buy into the "I'm fat because of my genetics," nor do I subscribe to the strict hardgainer theory, but it's a simple fact that it takes more calories for some people, and fewer for others, and consistency does make a difference for people with "higher metabolisms" or whatever you want to call it, making their bodies go into a catabolic state quicker.

[spartanruskie]

I definitely don't buy into the "I'm fat because of my genetics," nor do I subscribe to the strict hardgainer theory, but it's a simple fact that it takes more calories for some people, and fewer for others, and consistency does make a difference for people with "higher metabolisms" or whatever you want to call it, making their bodies go into a catabolic state quicker.

I'm confused now what did my rant on metabolism and the need for a closer scrutiny on insulin control have to do with caloric intake and why would anyone want to go into a catabolic or muscle wasteing state????????

[MyAssIsFartsy]

why would anyone want to go into a catabolic or muscle wasteing state????????


Good question. Not eating enough, or often enough, will do cause that to happen though, won't it?

[spartanruskie]

Well catabolic state is tricky you could be in it at any point in time regardless of caloric intake. For example (the easiest to explain) overtraining you're essentially in a catabolic state due to too much stress on your cns. Majority of those endurance athletes are in a catabolic state even though they consume tons and tons of carbs and calories. Which is certainly not healthy but try telling them that. So when it comes to prescribing a set amount of calories you have to look at key factors such as bodyweight ratios (muscle:fat:bone:blah blah blah), how much activity they'll be performing, RMR, BMR (everyone thinks they're the same but they're not), food allergies, the list continues then establish a set point and experiment from there.

[spartanruskie]

Essentially i like to keep it easy if it walked, ran, flew, used to swim, grows, or is green eat it. If you can't tell I'm a proponet of those "Caveman Diets" it what works for me. Basically sound nutrition advice comes down to this eat your Fiber, eat protein at every meal, get your EFA's (salmon oil caps *burps* yum fishy), drink plenty of water, portion control, get off your butt and do something, watch the alcohol consumption, put the bar (barbell) overhead, put the bar on the ground and pick it up several different ways, have a good sex life. Okay so the last few had nothing to do with nutrition but good advice none the less. If you can check off all of these then usually you're biggest concern isn't your bodyfat percent.

[Merlin]

Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70.

Meal frequency and energy balance.

Bellisle F, McDevitt R, Prentice AM.

INSERM U341, Hotel Dieu de Paris, France.

Several epidemiological studies have observed an inverse relationship between people's habitual frequency of eating and body weight, leading to the suggestion that a 'nibbling' meal pattern may help in the avoidance of obesity. A review of all pertinent studies shows that, although many fail to find any significant relationship, the relationship is consistently inverse in those that do observe a relationship. However, this finding is highly vulnerable to the probable confounding effects of post hoc changes in dietary patterns as a consequence of weight gain and to dietary under-reporting which undoubtedly invalidates some of the studies. We conclude that the epidemiological evidence is at best very weak, and almost certainly represents an artefact. A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral. More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are likely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.

[spartanruskie]

See i like how merlin has all his ducks in a row before his posts andthat he's so sciency lol. In essence wheter you prescribe to the 3 or 6 plus meals a day strategy watch your caloric intake and move your butt and stop nit picking about the specifics.

[Merlin]

See i like how merlin has all his ducks in a row before his posts andthat he's so sciency lol. In essence wheter you prescribe to the 3 or 6 plus meals a day strategy watch your caloric intake and move your butt and stop nit picking about the specifics.

This is really the best piece of advice. Eat food, get under a bar, train, rest, repeat. Everyone knows this. People just overcomplicate it.

[( o Y o )]

merlin, do you not think eating 3 meals obviously (depending apon their make up) effects your insulin more than smaller meals of a similar make up?

Sure, your body may well (particularly with chemical help) be able to asorb all the nutrients you need with boh cases, but in one your blood sugar levels will be far more stable throughout the day. Among other things this will help with the enrgy lows that ofen have weak-willed dieters reaching for something just to tied them over until the next meal.

On top of that I would love to hear why you think soy is good. Pubmed is not made up of guru's either....that would be more along the lines of Dr. Mercola's ramblings in my personal opinion.....and I will agree he is far too one-sded on soy if that is where you expected my own opinion came from.

[spartanruskie]

Now i'm not trying to answer for merlin just wanted to put my views on soy out there. Soy isn't the devil plain and simple, it's not my first choice for a protein source but i'm not going to not recommend it to someone who asks. The only negative argument i've heard dealing with soy consumption has to do with flooding the body with estrogen producing chemicals which for the males is a big no no, however i put that on the scale of those people who avoid seafood entirely cause they're afraid of mercury poisoning. Give me a break the amount of seafood/soy you'd have to consume to get the negative side effects is mind boggling (i'll save the references to merlin i'm way too lazy to search my studies and notes). Soy to me is no different than eating rice and beans together to make a complete protein, well okay except for the macronutrient profiles it's the same idea. So basically soy isn't bad you dont have to include it in your diet but dont rule it out entirely it has it's places just like everything else.

[CHH]

I've read a few studies that indicate that the estrogenic effects of soy is more than just a casual concern. Even so far as some patients in the trials getting tenders nips just from high soy intake. That's usually reserved for powerful exogenous hormones.........Woot woot for phyto-estrogens. I'll steer clear if possible, thanks

[Merlin]

Haha. I noticed that I usually post good info in the training section here and probably get more negs for my posts than otherwise. But when I post a video of a chick getting farted on in a porno, I get repped for that.

[Merlin]

And I once snorted an 8-ball of soy and lived.

[CHH]

Haha. I noticed that I usually post good info in the training section here and probably get more negs for my posts than otherwise. But when I post a video of a chick getting farted on in a porno, I get repped for that.It's because you typically come off as a self righteous asshole, and it bleeds through in every post you make in this forum. When you're better at someone than something, a bit of tact in the situation will keep everything kosher.

[Merlin]

It's because you typically come off as a self righteous asshole, and it bleeds through in every post you make in this forum. When you're better at someone than something, a bit of tact in the situation will keep everything kosher.

Oh I didn't say I cared about my rep. People can decide for themselves if they think I'm full of shit with the stuff I post.

[CHH]

Oh I didn't say I cared about my rep. People can decide for themselves if they think I'm full of shit with the stuff I post.Well, you brought it up, and I gave you an answer. The most brilliant teacher will never educate one student if he's such a cunt no one can stand to be around him for 1 minute.

[spartanruskie]

I've read a few studies that indicate that the estrogenic effects of soy is more than just a casual concern. Even so far as some patients in the trials getting tenders nips just from high soy intake. That's usually reserved for powerful exogenous hormones.........Woot woot for phyto-estrogens. I'll steer clear if possible, thanks

I've read the studies as well the pros and cons both sides always bring pretty interesting points and usually try to scare the crap out of the reader. As i said before wheter mercury poisoning or the fear of gyno (i'll reserve the term i like to use for bareknux lol) it comes down to a person to person basis. Personally i won't touch the stuff not due to the fear of the estrogenic effect but because of the taste like i said before there are far better sources out there. I prefer to base my judgements on in the trench knowledge not scientific studies. They're plenty of muscle bound athletic vegies out there reaping the awards of the iron while getting the bulk of their protein intake from soy and they aren't suffering from pre-teen girl ta ta's syndrome. While it happens to some they usually have some sort of glandual malfunction they didnt even know about. While only a fool would ignore this..........aw why am i even bothering to explain, you want to eat soy eat it you don't, don't i don't really care it just bothers me when i see people giving this don't eat this or that, no you're doing it wrong according to this study kind of advice their heart's in the right place it's just sometimes misguided. SOY SUX!!!!!!!!!! EGGS RULE NO WAIT ONLY EAT THE YOLKS NO WAIT SOME YOLKS ARE GOOD MILK IS THE DEVIL, CARBS ARE BAD NO THEY'RE GOOD and it continues on and on. Eat good food, move your butt, have lots of poon, and return to the earth in the end. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER BROTHERS.

[kcb]

I deadlifting 3 plates yesterday (315lbs) so I'm feeling pretty good. I felt like I had enough gas in the tank to keep going, but I hadn't planned on maxing and still wanted to complete my workout. This is the 3rd time I've deadlifted heavy in like 4 months and I pulled 315lbs. I'm pretty happy with myself.

P.S. Body weight is still around 215lbs. From here on out I might just start checking my bodyfat percentage, as I might not lose too much more weight because of weight training.

[Oliver Klosov]

I've read the studies as well the pros and cons both sides always bring pretty interesting points and usually try to scare the crap out of the reader. As i said before wheter mercury poisoning or the fear of gyno (i'll reserve the term i like to use for bareknux lol) it comes down to a person to person basis. Personally i won't touch the stuff not due to the fear of the estrogenic effect but because of the taste like i said before there are far better sources out there. I prefer to base my judgements on in the trench knowledge not scientific studies. They're plenty of muscle bound athletic vegies out there reaping the awards of the iron while getting the bulk of their protein intake from soy and they aren't suffering from pre-teen girl ta ta's syndrome. While it happens to some they usually have some sort of glandual malfunction they didnt even know about. While only a fool would ignore this..........aw why am i even bothering to explain, you want to eat soy eat it you don't, don't i don't really care it just bothers me when i see people giving this don't eat this or that, no you're doing it wrong according to this study kind of advice their heart's in the right place it's just sometimes misguided. SOY SUX!!!!!!!!!! EGGS RULE NO WAIT ONLY EAT THE YOLKS NO WAIT SOME YOLKS ARE GOOD MILK IS THE DEVIL, CARBS ARE BAD NO THEY'RE GOOD and it continues on and on. Eat good food, move your butt, have lots of poon, and return to the earth in the end. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER BROTHERS.

another problem with soy is that it has to be processed to be turned into all the stuff it's being used as. It doesn't come out of the ground that way.

[Alfuh]

It's because you typically come off as a self righteous asshole, and it bleeds through in every post you make in this forum. When you're better at someone than something, a bit of tact in the situation will keep everything kosher.

Quoted just so that it appears again in this thread. Merlin can't possibly read this enough.

[Merlin]

It's because you typically come off as a self righteous asshole, and it bleeds through in every post you make in this forum. When you're better at someone than something, a bit of tact in the situation will keep everything kosher.


Quoted again for good measure.

[DeltaSigChi4]

It's because you typically come off as a self righteous asshole, and it bleeds through in every post you make in this forum. When you're better at someone than something, a bit of tact in the situation will keep everything kosher.

Quoted so that Merlin can read it again.

E

[Merlin]

Quoted so that Merlin can read it again.

E

Well since you're back, would you like to defend your statements? You can neg me all day long, but it doesn't make you anymore qualified to field questions on a subject you know nothing about. I won't neg you back, but I will publicly pwn you on the subject.

[Cheney]

*insert amazingly long rant that is completely senseless*

"There are plenty of experts who claim that all that matters is the number of calories you eat: If you want to lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn. This may make sense on paper, but your body is far more complex than that. You see, it's not just how much you eat; it's what you eat--and when you eat it...Waiting more than 4 or 5 hours between meals causes your blood sugar to bottom out, leaving you weak, irritable, and tired. (For the record, both high and low blood sugar can be problematic.) To combat this, your body secretes cortisol, a hormone that boosts blood-sugar levels back to normal. Trouble is, one of the ways it does this is by converting muscle protein to sugar, what exercise scientists call "muscle wasting," two words you never want to see paired together. The solution: frequent meals. Eating more often helps regulate blood-sugar levels, protecting your muscles from being broken down and used as energy. Here's
a bonus: South African researchers found that men who ate the most frequently consumed 27 percent fewer calories than those who ate the least often." - Dr. John Berardi, Ph.D.


Just because you eat more often doesn't mean that you have to eat small meals, as stated above it matters what you eat; therefore, you can eat 6-7 complete meals a day as long as they utilize what you need to acheive your goals. Also, waiting multiple hours between meals, I don't care how big they are--which they shouldn't be massive in the first place--is definitely detrimental.

Eating the proper meals at the proper times of the day will allow you to burn plenty of fat while preserving your muscle. My good friend took this to heart, and keep in mind you have to be extremely disciplined when on a cutting diet, and ended up losing about 15 pounds in a month. This diet was also coupled with a high intensity workout. (No running, because that is bad for you--replace with grappling)

[Cheney]

How so?

[Crutch]

Yesterday I stuck to the diet just as I said. It wasn't all that hard, really. No real hunger pangs for fast food or anything unhealthy.

Today I did PT this morning, which was a complete joke because I didn't even try nor did anyone else for that matter. It was fucking like 40 degrees outside and my group pretty much just slacked off for 40 minutes. In fact, it was so cold, I didn't even work up a sweat.

Drank about 4 cups of water already this morning. I'll eat breakfast here soon. I'm thinking once piece of toast with peanut butter and 2 servings of my fake eggs.

You have to push yourself regardless of the weather. You'll only get out what you put in.

[Cheney]

Drank about 4 cups of water already this morning. I'll eat breakfast here soon. I'm thinking once piece of toast with peanut butter and 2 servings of my fake eggs.


Fast digesting carbohydrates will only bring on a spike in blood sugar and cause your body to begin storing fat. Go with the slower digesting ones found in vegetables and fruits(low-glycemic of course).

[kcb]

Fast digesting carbohydrates will only bring on a spike in blood sugar and cause your body to begin storing fat. Go with the slower digesting ones found in vegetables and fruits(low-glycemic of course).

I thought whole grains were slow digesting carbs.

[Cheney]

I thought whole grains were slow digesting carbs.

Any breads, pastas, rice, potatoes...they are all fast digesting. The whole grains i.e. wheat bread and multi-grain bread may digest slower.

By slow digesting carbs I was mainly referring to the fruits and veggies, and you never stated what type of bread it was.

[( o Y o )]

seems no one adressed the blood sugar balance in relation to smaller meals throughout the day, and a couple of monster meals. The topic quickly went to soy instead.

Soy protein has a good profile...there is of course the arguement from some that say the fagile protein is denatured during the processing of it into milks and isolates etc.

The isoflavones in soy are phyto-endocrine disrupters. This means anything over about 40gm per day can lead people to hypothyroidism.

Basically, for the thread starter......people are either pro-, anti-soy, so do the reasearch and make up your own mind on whether you want to eat it or not. The studies proving it is healthy do not out number those saying not to touch it. Read some for yourself here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed

Personally, living in Japan I cannot help but eat it...thankfully mostly after it has been fermented though. You can of course listen to the US National heart foundation saying it is the allmighty cure for most things.....I tend to look at Japan (one of, if nt the largest consumer of soy products) with females hitting puberty at some of the earliest ages in the world...ladies hitting menopause equally early, and men having the lowest fertility rate in the world, and it is not hard to decide. To each his own though, I am not out to convince anyone.

For anyone telling you "don't eat it or you will get bitch tits" though....ignore them as it wont happen.......not without truck-loads of the stuff daily anyway.

[kcb]

I'm down to 210lbs now. I've pretty much cut MMA down to once a week, because I don't have the energy to lift weights and do cardio nearly 5 days a week. I'm still eating around 5 or 6 small meals a day, too. Usually toast with organic jelly or natural PB in the morning with some almonds and a bananna. A few hours later I might have another handful of almonds. Lunch time I'll eat a salad with spinich leaves and 2 pieces of chicken breast. A few hours later I'll have a turkey sandwich maybe or fix myself a homemade pizza on pita bread. I usually finish the day with a protein shake.

In May I'll quit lifting as much and do MMA 3 times a week and lift only once a week, but do a fullbody routine. By May I should not only be 205lbs, but my body fat percentage should be down a lot more too. Right now I'm at 12%.

[DaPunisher]

wow this thread has grown from a small porpoise to a a gigantic sperm whale of a weight loss thread.

[Cheney]

I'm down to 210lbs now. I've pretty much cut MMA down to once a week, because I don't have the energy to lift weights and do cardio nearly 5 days a week. I'm still eating around 5 or 6 small meals a day, too. Usually toast with organic jelly or natural PB in the morning with some almonds and a bananna. A few hours later I might have another handful of almonds. Lunch time I'll eat a salad with spinich leaves and 2 pieces of chicken breast. A few hours later I'll have a turkey sandwich maybe or fix myself a homemade pizza on pita bread. I usually finish the day with a protein shake.

In May I'll quit lifting as much and do MMA 3 times a week and lift only once a week, but do a fullbody routine. By May I should not only be 205lbs, but my body fat percentage should be down a lot more too. Right now I'm at 12%.

It is good that you are eating several meals a day, but you should make sure that each meal contains the essentials, they don't have to be small as long as they are healthy. You mainly want protein, slow-digesting carbs, and healthy fats.

For your meals that aren't your main meals, i.e. in between breakfast and lunch, lunch and dinner, you want to eat more than just some nuts. The nuts are good because they are a healthy fat and have protein but you also want to eat a slow digesting carb with it. I would incorporate a small salad or some fruit like apples or oranges. The slow digesting carbs will maintain your blood sugar and allow you to continue burning fat, especially since you are taking in healthy fats, instead of spiking it like the fast digesting carbs(pastas, breads, rice etc.) do and cause your body to begin storing fat.

[Merlin]

wow this thread has grown from a small porpoise to a a gigantic sperm whale of a weight loss thread.

Yeah this thread pretty much kicks ass.

[kcb]

I'm down two more pounds to 208. Only 3 more pounds to go.

[Cheney]

Good job. I am glad to hear that you were successful.

[kcb]

Since I've been doing the traditional squat/push/pull split for the last 5 weeks, I decided to change it up for the next 5 weeks. I'm going to be doing 3 full body workouts a week for added conditioning. I might superset the exercises to really give the routine some edge, but if I don't, then the time between sets will be no more than 45 seconds.

As I've already stated, the goal here is added conditioning, not maximal strength. I was going to do a burpee routine in lieu of this, but I thought I probably need to get some more time under the bar. Hopefully doing this routine, plus my the cardio from PT every morning will help me with fat burnage.

Post if you are curious about the routine.

[Alfuh]

Post if you are curious about the routine.

Someone will so it might as well be me.

*Plays along*

I'm really interested in your routine Mr. Brawley, care to share it?

[kcb]

Someone will so it might as well be me.

*Plays along*

I'm really interested in your routine Mr. Brawley, care to share it?

As you were, Airman.

Monday:

Standing Overhead BB Press ? 3 x 8
Pull-ups/Lat Pull Down ? 3 x 8
Dips ? 3 x Max
SLDL ? 3 x 8

Abs - Sit-up and flutter kick circuit.

Wednesday:

Bench ? 3 x 8
Bent over BB Rows ? 3 x 8
BB Good Mornings ? 3 x 8
Lunges ? 3 x 8

Abs ? Sit-up and flutter kick circuit.

Friday:

Squat ? 3 x 8
Leg Press ? 3 x 8
CG Bench ? 3 x 8
Skull Crushers ? 3 x 8

Abs ? Sit-up and flutter kick circuit

[Alfuh]

Are those going to be straight sets one exercise at a time or a circuit with one set of each exercise before rest?

[kcb]

I'll probably superset 1 an 2, then 3 and 4.

[PorkchopExpress]

have you tried cancer?

it worked wonders for me

[kcb]

have you tried cancer?

it worked wonders for me

I'm trying to quit. I heard it takes years off your life.

[spartanruskie]

Okay so you're close to your weight loss goal but how's your body composition this is what i'm really interested in. I could care less what the scale says it's about how you perform and how you look, moreso performance wise but let's face it we all want to look good nekkid.

[kcb]

Okay so you're close to your weight loss goal but how's your body composition this is what i'm really interested in. I could care less what the scale says it's about how you perform and how you look, moreso performance wise but let's face it we all want to look good nekkid.

Not real sure if my bodyfat % has went down any. I know I can see my upper abs now and I couldn't before, so that probably means something. My body fat % as of a week ago was at 12% I think.

As far as performance goes, I haven't been to MMA in two weeks because I've been playing poker all the time. I feel like I'm in better shape, though.

[spartanruskie]

I was just a little concerned with the low volume of your new program wasn't sure if you had cut calories again and upped energy system work due to not being happy with your body composition. Which would call for less volume hitting the iron. Now that you've dropped this much weight have you reevaluted your goals any are you trying to build more muscle or just get real lean and maintain it would help me better in going over your routine to see where you're trying to get.

[DaPunisher]

damn this thread is still going???

[spartanruskie]

THIS THREAD WILL NEVER DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

[kcb]

I was just a little concerned with the low volume of your new program wasn't sure if you had cut calories again and upped energy system work due to not being happy with your body composition. Which would call for less volume hitting the iron. Now that you've dropped this much weight have you reevaluted your goals any are you trying to build more muscle or just get real lean and maintain it would help me better in going over your routine to see where you're trying to get.

The weight program is low volume, but I'm also running long distances 3 times a week and doing calisthenics.

My goal is to just keep losing body fat.

[Cheney]

You should do some hanging leg lifts (with wieghts if possible) to really hit your lower abs. I think they work great.

[kcb]

I'm down to 205 offically. The weight goal has been met and it feels pretty good. I'll post pics shortly. Like I mentioned last week, I'm just going to keep working on reducing my body fat little by little.

[Alfuh]

I'm interested in seeing these pics. I hope and pray you don't just look really skinny.

[kcb]

I'm interested in seeing these pics. I hope and pray you don't just look really skinny.

imo, i don't think i look 205. i still think i look around 215, but we'll see how the pics turn out.

[dude]

I hit the bench today for the first time in a few weeks and pressed 225 once, I felt like a man.

[DaPunisher]

brawley you should throw some chins in that routine somewhere.

[Dangerous Dan]

If you're a man, you shouldn't be dropping your daily calorie amount below 1400. Below that is unhealthy. On training days, you should add an extra 400 calories coming from carbs to that to prevent muscle breakdown. You should be eating 12-15 times your lean body mass in calories to begin with for best results.

[kcb]

If you're a man, you shouldn't be dropping your daily calorie amount below 1400. Below that is unhealthy. On training days, you should add an extra 400 calories coming from carbs to that to prevent muscle breakdown. You should be eating 12-15 times your lean body mass in calories to begin with for best results.

I'm curious how much of this thread you really read.

[Alfuh]

I'm curious how much of this thread you really read.

And I'm curious as to what someone's gender has to do with the number 1,400?


Any chance on getting the pics up soon? I want ripped Brawley for my new desktop at work!

[kcb]

And I'm curious as to what someone's gender has to do with the number 1,400?


Any chance on getting the pics up soon? I want ripped Brawley for my new desktop at work!

Haha, yeah! Don't get your hopes too high, though. Ripped Brawley is overweight Alfuh :(

[Alfuh]

Haha, yeah! Don't get your hopes too high, though. Ripped Brawley is overweight Alfuh :(

+9.5 inches :o

[Dangerous Dan]

I'm curious how much of this thread you really read.

Only the first and last page.

As you know Alfuh, men and women aren't the same species. We both have different genetic metabolisms associated with our sex. Men have a naturally thicker bone and muscle mass overall, while women have less. Taking these factors into account, the conclusion is women don't need the same amount of calories. I don't know all the technical reasons, but that's the basics. In general the minimum number of calories most men need while low calorie dieting is on average, 1400. This is to ensure your metabolism doesn't slow down due to famine, and also to make sure your body is functioning properly overall.

[Alfuh]

As you know Alfuh, men and women aren't the same species.

Golden. My long quest for a sig may have finally ended.

*sheds single tear*

[Sir Gibbs]

Golden. My long quest for a sig may have finally ended.

*sheds single tear*

That's beautiful, it's even got your name in it. Hook it up now.

[Alfuh]

That's beautiful, it's even got your name in it. Hook it up now.

Giggity giggity goo!

[Merlin]

Only the first and last page.

As you know Alfuh, men and women aren't the same species. We both have different genetic metabolisms associated with our sex. Men have a naturally thicker bone and muscle mass overall, while women have less. Taking these factors into account, the conclusion is women don't need the same amount of calories. I don't know all the technical reasons, but that's the basics. In general the minimum number of calories most men need while low calorie dieting is on average, 1400. This is to ensure your metabolism doesn't slow down due to famine, and also to make sure your body is functioning properly overall.

No, you're completely wrong. And lucky for us I DO know all the technical reasons why.

[Alfuh]

No, you're completely wrong.

I got so caught up by the first sentence I forgot to add that part in.

[kcb]

Alfuh, here is the progress picture. It kind of sucks because I didn't take any before pictures, but just take my word for it when I say that I was in worse shape. The picture quality sucks a little, but you can see my abs a little I guess. Anyway, me at 205:


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f249/kcbrawley/Picture4.jpg

[DaPunisher]

quite the manly 2 pac!!!!!!

[kcb]

quite the manly 2 pac!!!!!!

I know, right.

[kcb]

Do note, this isn't me showing off. This thread started out as a way for me to keep track of my progress. Hopefully in another month or so I'll be able to take another picture and it be drastically different than the one I just posted.

[Alfuh]

*rubs nipples*



;)

Its a shame there are no before pictures, but I'll take your word for it that you are getting the progress that you want. Don't go getting too thin on us now. Soon you may want to consider upping your calories a bit by adding in some (I know Merlin hates this term, but I'll use it anyway :)) CLEAN foods. Maybe an extra meal with protein, carbs .. something like chicken breast, brown rice and vegetables stir fried ... its not too many calories and it will level you out or maybe even get you on the track to some slow gains in LBM.

[Dangerous Dan]

No, you're completely wrong. And lucky for us I DO know all the technical reasons why.

Give em to me, wizard.

[Dangerous Dan]

and Alfuh, men and women aren't the same species. I learned it somewhere.

[kcb]

and Alfuh, men and women aren't the same species. I learned it somewhere.

I still can't tell if you are joking.

[Alfuh]

I still can't tell if you are joking.

I'm not sure why I would do anything, but laugh at him at this point, but ...

Scientific classification of Humans

Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia

Order: Primates

Superfamily: Hominoidea

Family: Hominidae

Subfamily: Homininae

Tribe: Hominini

Genus: Homo

Species: H. sapiens

Dan: Hope that helps you realize how infinitely stupid you looked and why you are in my sig. Now I don't want to drag this off topic so we can wait for Merlin to explain to you why you are stupid in other areas of discussion. :)

[Dangerous Dan]

I'm not sure why I would do anything, but laugh at him at this point, but ...

Scientific classification of Humans

Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia

Order: Primates

Superfamily: Hominoidea

Family: Hominidae

Subfamily: Homininae

Tribe: Hominini

Genus: Homo

Species: H. sapiens

Dan: Hope that helps you realize how infinitely stupid you looked and why you are in my sig. Now I don't want to drag this off topic so we can wait for Merlin to explain to you why you are stupid in other areas of discussion. :)

That doesn't mean shit.

[CHH]

DUDE! YOU SAID MEN AND WOMEN AREN'T THE SAME SPECIES!!!!!! Unless you're talking about male humans and female dogs, they surely are the same species.

[Dangerous Dan]

It's not like I made it up. It's not my opinion either, because I always thought we were. So you can imagine my surprise when I learned that.

[Merlin]

Give em to me, wizard.


You know...I was really about to start writing, but then I read the rest of what you said. I'll save my time.

And Alfuh, I'll bring you around to see things my way eventually. It may just take some time.

[Oliver Klosov]

weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

So I have been trying to drop some weight lately and work on my abs (or lack thereof). I have just recently switched my workout routine so that my cardio is after weight lifting because I heard that it would burn more fat that way. can anyone validate that?

my other question(s) is about weight lifting. should i be doing more reps/sets or more weight? what is best for weight loss? what is best for increasing strength? what is best for adding bulk?

[Alfuh]

weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out

Simply astounding!

*Hands over Nobel Peace Prize AND an Oscar for good measure*

[Oliver Klosov]

Simply astounding!

*Hands over Nobel Peace Prize AND an Oscar for good measure*

*gladly accepts*

*turns them over immediately to Fedor*

[Merlin]

So I have been trying to drop some weight lately and work on my abs (or lack thereof). I have just recently switched my workout routine so that my cardio is after weight lifting because I heard that it would burn more fat that way. can anyone validate that?

my other question(s) is about weight lifting. should i be doing more reps/sets or more weight? what is best for weight loss? what is best for increasing strength? what is best for adding bulk?

Cardio after weight training is good, but not because of magical increased fat loss. It's just a better way to do things if you're going to do both in the same workout.

More weight. Almost always the answer is more weight. Other questions, just repeat: add more weight.

[Dangerous Dan]

So I have been trying to drop some weight lately and work on my abs (or lack thereof). I have just recently switched my workout routine so that my cardio is after weight lifting because I heard that it would burn more fat that way. can anyone validate that?

my other question(s) is about weight lifting. should i be doing more reps/sets or more weight? what is best for weight loss? what is best for increasing strength? what is best for adding bulk?

In my opinion and from what I've studied, doing cardio in the morning, and then lifting in the evening is the best option for fat loss. It's best to do weight lifting on seperate days. But if you're training, then just try to space them as far apart as possible. Cardio in the early morning before you eat, and weight lifting in the evening.

For weight lifting you should be using a tempo of 1/0/1, while using moderate weight, keeping your reps 10-12. Rest 1.5 minutes between sets. After about 4 weeks of this and you haven't reached your goal, you can switch over to a heavier routine with lower reps. You can't train for both mass and fat loss at the same time effectively. So lose however much fat you want first, and then switch to a mass diet and training schedule.

[Dangerous Dan]

You know...I was really about to start writing, but then I read the rest of what you said. I'll save my time.

And Alfuh, I'll bring you around to see things my way eventually. It may just take some time.

No, just tell me. I really want to know.

[CHH]

In my opinion and from what I've studied, doing cardio in the morning, and then lifting in the evening is the best option for fat loss. It's best to do weight lifting on seperate days. But if you're training, then just try to space them as far apart as possible. Cardio in the early morning before you eat, and weight lifting in the evening.

For weight lifting you should be using a tempo of 1/0/1, while using moderate weight, keeping your reps 10-12. Rest 1.5 minutes between sets. After about 4 weeks of this and you haven't reached your goal, you can switch over to a heavier routine with lower reps. You can't train for both mass and fat loss at the same time effectively. So lose however much fat you want first, and then switch to a mass diet and training schedule.
This is good advice. Also I need bigger guns, should I do 52 rep sets of bicep curls or cable flies? How much would you charge to write me a routine?

[Alfuh]

Okay ... that's another Dangerous Dan post that I won't touch. Its generally good advice, but he gets way too particular, once again, and will end up getting torn up, once again. Okay .. I'll dabble just a bit. Dan, do tell, what have you studied?

Also, cardio after lifting is best for fat loss because your lifting uses up your muscle glycogen so when you do your cardio you can tap into fat stores. Or so I'm told. And Dan was right about morning fasted cardio. If you are only looking to do slow paced cardio (ie. walking) then an hour a morning, while fasted (or having a small amount of protein / caffeine) would do the trick.

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

In my opinion and from what I've studied, doing cardio in the morning, and then lifting in the evening is the best option for fat loss. It's best to do weight lifting on seperate days. But if you're training, then just try to space them as far apart as possible. Cardio in the early morning before you eat, and weight lifting in the evening.

For weight lifting you should be using a tempo of 1/0/1, while using moderate weight, keeping your reps 10-12. Rest 1.5 minutes between sets. After about 4 weeks of this and you haven't reached your goal, you can switch over to a heavier routine with lower reps. You can't train for both mass and fat loss at the same time effectively. So lose however much fat you want first, and then switch to a mass diet and training schedule.

I'm not really a morning person and sometimes my job requires that I come in so early anyway that there would be no time. I'm stuck with the evening workouts for the most part except for weekends. Tonight I warmed up on the elliptical machine for 10 minutes, weights for 20 minutes, and then ran on the treadmill for 30 minutes.

The hard part is always the diet though. It takes so much diligence to have good quality food around at all meal times. Today I had a breakfast bar and a banana, caesar wrap with no dressing (t bell) for lunch, a bean burrito in the afternoon (also t bell), and a greek salad with grilled chicken for dinner. I need to substitute something else other than taco bell for lunch. Quizno's? Subway? I ate at Zoup the other day and that wasn't bad. Anyone ever eat there?

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

cardio after lifting is best for fat loss because your lifting uses up your muscle glycogen so when you do your cardio you can tap into fat stores. Or so I'm told.

I was told the exact same by some yoga instructor type

And Dan was right about morning fasted cardio. If you are only looking to do slow paced cardio (ie. walking) then an hour a morning, while fasted (or having a small amount of protein / caffeine) would do the trick.

"fasted" - you mean on an empty stomach? I might be able to fit in a 15-20 min run on some mornings if I knew I would get more out of it. How much of a difference would it make?

[Merlin]

There is a gradual increase in fat utilization with time during cardio, but the whole idea is predicated on the basic fallacy that you need to burn fat during activity to lose fat in the first place. Hence the confusion. People see half of something and make a generalization. But the advice given is all good -- it's not rocket surgery.

[CHH]

Alwyn Cosgrove once wrote something along the lines of "even if there was a 20% difference between regular cardio and fasted cardio (and there isn't) it'd be a whopping 80 calories a session, 560 calories a week, and 29,120 calories a year....or 8.3 extra pounds. Just do you cardio whenever the fuck you want" or something to that effect.

I take the tards approach to doing cardio. I do hard stuff until it makes me tired. Then I do it more until I can't move and start seeing stars, then I go home and eat a big ass sub sandwich.

[kcb]

I've been doing fasted cardio. It works out better for me. I wake up just in time to brush my teeth and get dressed. I really don't have time to eat breakfast until after my workout.

[Dangerous Dan]

Alwyn Cosgrove once wrote something along the lines of "even if there was a 20% difference between regular cardio and fasted cardio (and there isn't) it'd be a whopping 80 calories a session, 560 calories a week, and 29,120 calories a year....or 8.3 extra pounds. Just do you cardio whenever the fuck you want" or something to that effect.

I take the tards approach to doing cardio. I do hard stuff until it makes me tired. Then I do it more until I can't move and start seeing stars, then I go home and eat a big ass sub sandwich.

This is true, but the main purpose of cardio is NOT to burn as many calories as you can at that moment. The overall purpose of the cardio is to increase your metabolism so that your body burns calories at an elevated rate for the rest of the day. The reason for cardio on an empty stomach is to increase your fat mobilisation where fat cells are moved into the blood to be burned for energy. Immediately and for the rest of the day. If you eat before you do cardio you will burn the same amount of calories, but you won't burn as many fat calories because the calories needed for the exercise will come from your recent meal. You will get almost no fat mobilisation when exercising with a lot of glycogen stored in the muscles and plenty of glucose in the bloodstream.

Alfuh, you and Merlin are right about doing the cardio after the weight training, IF you're going to do both in the very same workout. Which should btw be in the morning. If you can space them apart in the day, which is recommended, the results are far greater. I've studied here and there, lol.

Pandora, it's never easy when you don't have much time on your hands. But good substitutes that you can get with fast food would be the following:

McDonald's: grilled chicken deluxe (no sauce, substitute ketchup with mustard)
grilled chicken salad deluxe

Burger King: BK Broiler Chicken Sandwich (no mayo)
Broiled Chicken Salad (w/lite italian dressing)

Taco Bell: Grilled Chicken Burrito (no sour cream, no cheese)
Grilled Chicken Soft Taco

Wendy's: Grilled Chicken Sandwich (no mayo)
Grilled Chicken Salad (lite italian dressing)

Jack in the Box: Chicken Fajita Pita
Chicken Teriyaki Bowl (Eat only half)
Garden Chicken Salad

You get the basic idea, so just lay off the soft drinks and stick with the basics and you should be able to do it. Work hard and good luck.

[Merlin]

I was just reading over some of Alwyn's old stuff and saw this, which most of us have already seen, but I really really like his style:

"2) FASTED CARDIO

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously, are you fucking kidding me? Why are we even talking about this?

Let's take two twins, both 200lbs, both doing the same training program, taking the same supplements, and following the same nutrition plan in the hopes of getting lean.

One difference, though: one of them eats 2 eggs and does 30 minutes of cardio three days per week. The other does 30 minutes of cardio, three days per week and THEN eats 2 eggs.

So what's the magical difference in terms of fat loss after six months? Drum roll please...

I'll tell you ? no fucking difference.

However, whenever you bring up this question we get a ton of responses saying, "This is exactly the information I needed!". Oh fuck off. The reason you are still fat is because you couldn't decide to do cardio on an empty stomach or not?

30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week ? 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories.

Or 6.6 lbs of fat.

In six months.

If doing it fasted, burned 30% more (which it doesn't), you're looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period.

Or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

And for those of you who say ? I do fasted cardio but I have a small scoop of protein first, then you're NOT DOING IT FASTED THEN, ARE YOU?

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn't do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you're hungry."

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

Merlin, I think your sig is great. If we were to do a regression on what factors actually do the most for fat loss, fasted vs non-fasted would be toward the bottom of the list. List toppers are diet and exercise - no doubt. Everything else is just to enhance those two factors. The subtle nuances of diet or training make little difference compared to just watching what you eat and training hard.

There is a guy that kept coming up when I did a search on google for 'fasted cardio' - Tom Venuto. Here is a link to one of his articles. http://www.freedomfly.net/Articles/Training/training17.htm He's all about the fasted cardio.

Dan, thanks for the menu suggestions. I had Subway for lunch today. Turkey wrap (made from wheat, soy, and seseame flour), double meat, no cheese, no dressing, lettuce, tomato, green pepper, banana peppers, and jalapenos. Water to drink. I have been drinking diet soda for a long while instead of juice or regular soda. Other than the sodium and aspartame (i've heard this isn't good for you), are there other downsides to diet drinks?

[Alfuh]

God I love Alwyn. I think I might just send him an email saying how much he kicks ass. And maybe buy one of his books too because he deserves support and there is a TON I can learn from him.

[kcb]

This week has been an "active rest" week, I guess. I haven't worried about my diet a whole lot and only lifted 2 days and did cardio once. My left knee is acting up again like the little faggot that it is, so that is my main reason for taking it easy. Starting Monday I'll be back on track. I think I'm probably at about 206 or 207 now.

[CHH]

I was just reading over some of Alwyn's old stuff and saw this, which most of us have already seen, but I really really like his style:

"2) FASTED CARDIO

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously, are you fucking kidding me? Why are we even talking about this?

Let's take two twins, both 200lbs, both doing the same training program, taking the same supplements, and following the same nutrition plan in the hopes of getting lean.

One difference, though: one of them eats 2 eggs and does 30 minutes of cardio three days per week. The other does 30 minutes of cardio, three days per week and THEN eats 2 eggs.

So what's the magical difference in terms of fat loss after six months? Drum roll please...

I'll tell you ? no fucking difference.

However, whenever you bring up this question we get a ton of responses saying, "This is exactly the information I needed!". Oh fuck off. The reason you are still fat is because you couldn't decide to do cardio on an empty stomach or not?

30 minutes of steady state cardio will burn about 300 calories. Three times per week ? 900 calories. Add that up for 26 weeks and we get a whopping: 23,400 calories.

Or 6.6 lbs of fat.

In six months.

If doing it fasted, burned 30% more (which it doesn't), you're looking at another 2lbs of fat in that same six month period.

Or an additional 0.07 pounds per week.

And for those of you who say ? I do fasted cardio but I have a small scoop of protein first, then you're NOT DOING IT FASTED THEN, ARE YOU?

Fat people finish marathons all the time. Aerobic training doesn't do a hell of a lot for real world fat loss. Even if you're hungry."
Jeez...I was remarkably close considering I was just going off of memory. God damn I must be a genius

[CHH]

This is true, but the main purpose of cardio is NOT to burn as many calories as you can at that moment. The overall purpose of the cardio is to increase your metabolism so that your body burns calories at an elevated rate for the rest of the day. Oh ya....



It's not? I may be dumb, but I always thought metabolism was pretty much just a properly functioning thyroid gland and calories burned by the body to maintain lean muscle mass. Now I find out there's a switch that can be activated by cardio? Tell me please, what does this switch do, and how does it affect the body?

[Fighting_Irish1]

Fasted morning cardio is a load of crap, There are no tricks cardio is cardio some is always better than none but at the end of the day its not the be all and end all,

The only tip I would agree with is not doing any cardio before weights as it will deplete your intra-muscular glycogen stores and hamper your performance in resistance training.

[kcb]

I'm only lifting weights two days a week now. I'll probably split it up between a heavy upper body day and a heavy lower body day, but may still superset some lifts to help save time. After the weights, I'll do 5-7 minutes of guerilla cardio or however you spell it. I figured I'd give it a try.

[Don]

I aint read the whole thread, but have you made changes to your diet? This plays a big part in the way your metabolism works.

I found limiting eating carbs to just the early part of the day, has helped dropped loads of weight. Meals after lunch are usually meat and veg or salad, plus protein if you lifting big weights. I don't believe in protein shakes personally, cos I left bodybuilding years ago.

[Alfuh]

I don't believe in protein shakes personally, cos I left bodybuilding years ago.

Not to open another can of worms, but there is nothing to believe in when it comes to protein shakes and they are not solely for bodybuilders. Its just a means to get more protein into your diet. My girlfriend's mother was told by her doctor to start taking protein shakes (which I generously help her with when I'm over :)) and she is most definitely not a bodybuilder.

[Don]

I have no need for them personally. I eat plenty of protein.

However, excess consumation of protein puts strain on kidneys.

[Alfuh]

I have no need for them personally. I eat plenty of protein.



That's the only point I was making. If you have sufficient protein in your diet then the need of a shake is debatable (imo quick digesting protein such as whey or even bcaas are still beneficial after weight training), but if you do not get sufficient protein and need help getting that amount up, then you can supplement your diet with shakes. That's all.

[Don]

That's the only point I was making. If you have sufficient protein in your diet then the need of a shake is debatable (imo quick digesting protein such as whey or even bcaas are still beneficial after weight training), but if you do not get sufficient protein and need help getting that amount up, then you can supplement your diet with shakes. That's all.

Oh definitely! Whey protein before and after pumping iron is always good. Just depends on your goals, mate. Bodybuilding is not one of MY goals, that is all I was saying.

[kcb]

No changes really. I'm just eating smaller "meals" and snacking more on things like lowfat popcorn and pretzels.

[Alfuh]

No changes really. I'm just eating smaller "meals" and snacking more on things like lowfat popcorn and pretzels.

I'm starting to do the same, but I snack on fatty things like nuts and seeds and include some apples and bananas as well.

[kcb]

I'm starting to do the same, but I snack on fatty things like nuts and seeds and include some apples and bananas as well.

Oh yeah, I like almonds too.

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

I've found that carrots dipped in humous isn't that bad. I try and have a limited amount of carbs at dinner as well. I have also designated Sunday as my binge day. Having one day a week that I eat whatever I want (not how much however) is comforting and makes dieting on a repetitive basis MUCH easier. It's hard to grow up on pizza and soda and then just flip a switch and go with chicken and spinach 24/7.

[Lord Prawn]

Some thoughts on losing weight, most of which are totally obvious and self evident to most people here:

*Eat and a whole lot of veggies and a fair bit of fruit.

*Limit carbs, just remember that an active person tolerates them better than an inactive person due to his superior insulin functioning and therefore does not need to be hysterical about them.

*Drink lots of water.

*Fit bodies utilize both fat and sugars more effectively. If you're not fit you must get fit.

*Coffee can help me control my appetite, and it also contains caffeine which has been known to increase fat metabolisation from the body's fat cells.

*Protein is more filling than carbs.

*Eat your meals from small plates.

*Finish your meal a little bit before you feel that you have eaten enough. It takes about fiften minutes to feel full due to slow enzymatic / hormonal reactions in the body, and this causes a delay that makes you eat more than you perhaps should.

*Fuck your friends. If you're on a diet you're on a diet. You are not gay because you choose to eat salads and clean meat instead of the pizza they're about to order.

*Lactic acid training is the shit for burning fat, due in part to the pituitary gland releasing large amounts of growth hormone in response to it.

*Exercising on an empty stomach in the morning has been shown to greatly increase levels of hgh too, so yes, it may not be such a bad idea to do that.

*The body will not burn fat when its blood vessels are full of insulin, so while an exercise session right after a meal will expend energy and burn calories, it will not burn body fat while you're doing it - which is not a problem if you force the body to burn calories at other times during the day by not eating enough to sustain your fat reserves, of course.

*Lack of sleep and stress in general puts fat on men's bellies through a joint effort of cortisol and testosterone. Low testosterone levels in itself will also help you get a beer belly. If you're skinny and have a beer belly at the same time something is probably wrong with you - or with your life.

*The last place fat will leave the body is usually where it first arrived, so if your first signs of being overweight was a flabby stomach, you're probably not going to lose that until you've lost most of your excessive fat elsewhere. Sadly.

*Smokers have more problems getting rid of fat on their stomachs than non-smokers.

*Plan your meals at least five days a week, preferably six or seven days a week.

*Kill people who tell you to sweat off the weight weeks in advance of a weigh in as the advice is counterproductive and possible evidence of brain damage in the moron giving the giving it. There are a fair few boxing trainers out there who obviously boxed for too long.

*To never expect to be a little hungry while losing weight is silly, unless you're on really strong stimulants of some sort.

*It helps a lot to get more active throughout the day and not just focus on that one 'fat losing session' in the morning. In general, one should move more, but not be stressed out.

*Train six days a week, and don't spend the whole seventh on the couch.

*An intense weight training session improves insulin functioning for 24 to 48 hours, speeds up your metabolism and probably helps you lose less muscle while losing weight. This means that people who want to lose weight and not weight train are stupid and should probably be shot.

*Fish rules, even fatty fish - omega 3 acids helps the body utilize fat for energy production.

*A 'guerilla cardio' session followed by an hour long walk burns body fat real fucking well. Don't bring the sports drink.

*It's easier to keep slim than to get slim, so slim people should worry about this stuff too even if they think they'll never have to. At first signs of carrying more bodyfat than they are happy with they should attack the problem.

*Falling in love helps most people lose weight even if they don't try to. Staying in love tends to put it back on. So watch it.

*Being overweight is a sure way to not only make your life shorter, it also helps it suck more in more ways than most would think of by affecting virtually any area of life, from getting pussy to making money to having nice happiness producing chemicals in your brain. The world would be a better place if so many people weren't so fucking fat.

*There really is no substitute for amphetamines when it comes to weight loss.

[Lord Prawn]

Some more points off the top of my head (not meant for you, Kcb, but for fat fucks in general such as myself who need some reminders right now to lose weight):

*Really do take before and after pics and measure bodyfat percentages when on a weight loss regimen to keep track of your results. It not only helps steer you in the right direction, it also greatly helps you stay motivated.

*Stop spending your mental energy trying to find some magic fat loss supplement or even a magic fat loss routine and focus more on the basics such as eating / not eating and moving your ass.

*Remember this line: Nothing tastes as good as being healthy feels.

*Studies show that people tend to underestimate the intelligence of fat people. It's not that fat people are more stupid, they just look more stupid.

*Actually, fat people may be more stupid due to not moving their fat asses as much as they should and eating bad foods that fuck with their brains.

*A famous study showed that rats who were fed less food lived longer than rats who ate a normal amount of food and whose body weight were normal.

*Cutting out fats in your diet is a mistake. You need fat if you want your body to work properly. Just don't eat much of the crappy fat.

*If you find yourself eating something you know you shouldn't it's probably because the benefits (in this case, the pleasure) of doing so seem more real to you in that particular moment than concequences of it and the benefits of NOT doing it. If focus more on how great things will be when you reach your desired body fat percentage / weight and really make a clear image of that scenario of your mind you won't need to think half as much about that thing called 'discipline.' If that doesn't help the make yourself really FEEL the pain of being fat by focusing on everything that will suck for you if you don't slim down. If someone tells you it's all in the mind it means they know their shit. Because it really is.

*We create our habits and then our habits create us. If you don't like your life then change your habits.

*James Toney would have been World Heavyweight Champion right now if he cared as much about glory, accomplishment, money, boxing and life as he cares about food. Shame.

[Merlin]

However, excess consumation of protein puts strain on kidneys.


Ahem. Source?

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

For those fast food junkies out there, beware the fried stuff (as if you didn't already know, Fatty).

Fast-Food Fries, Chicken Fattier in U.S.

The Danish researchers tested products from the chains' outlets in dozens of countries in 2004 and 2005, analyzing McDonald's chicken nuggets, KFC hot wings, and the two chains' fried potatoes. The findings were reported in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine.

At a New York City McDonald's, a large fries-and-chicken-nuggets combo was found to contain 10.2 grams of the trans fat, compared with 0.33 grams in Denmark and about 3 grams in Spain, Russia and the Czech Republic.

At KFCs in Poland and Hungary, a large hot wings-and-fries order had 19 grams of trans fats or more, versus 5.5 grams for wings and fried potato wedges in New York. But in Germany, Russia, Denmark and Aberdeen, Scotland, the same meal had less than a gram.

A large order of french fries at a New York City McDonald's contained 30 percent more trans fat than the same order from an Atlanta McDonald's.

Entire Article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060413/ap_on_he_me/diet_fatty_fries_6

[kcb]

Today I ran 3 miles in a little less than 25 minutes. Pretty good workout.

[kcb]

Wednesday and today I did 10 minutes of gorilla cardio. It was a pretty kickass workout, to say the least. Wednesday I did upperbody before the cardio, though. Since my knee is still sucking balls, I didn't do any leg work today. My weight is still around the 205-208 point.

[Don]

Have you considered eating different food types at different times of the day?
Recently I started only eating carbs until lunch time. Any meals after are just meat and salad/vegetables. I dropped a lot of weight with some heavy cardio too.

[kcb]

I don't know. I've been craving meat really bad lately. Chicken, beef, tuna, whatever.. It's like I can't get enough...

[MyAssIsFartsy]

I don't know. I've been craving meat really bad lately. Chicken, beef, tuna, whatever.. It's like I can't get enough...


Yeah, listen to your body, get that protein.












p.s. I hate your av.

[kcb]

Yeah, listen to your body, get that protein.












p.s. I hate your av.

Hehe, yeah. I can't blame you for that. Everything will be back to normal soon. I just got really bored and had 1000 vcash to burn so I thought "what the hell..?"

[kcb]

I don't know how the hell, but I'm down to 200lbs after a weekend where I binged on everything from donuts to pizza. I've somehow lost 5 pounds.

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

I don't know how the hell, but I'm down to 200lbs after a weekend where I binged on everything from donuts to pizza. I've somehow lost 5 pounds.

Sweet!

*throws carrots and celery in the garbage and switches to 'everything from donuts to pizza diet'*

I went to a Pistons game on Sunday with some friends (free tickets!!!) and totally binged on the 'round the world buffet' at the all inclusive Cingular Club (pizza, cheesecake, burritos, beef wellington, strawberry cake, chocolate covered strawberries, sushi, lettuce wraps, thai chicken, cream puffs, smoked salmon, coffee, and a lot of BEER). I think I left some stuff out from the indian and italian tables... Needless to say I will be training extra hard this week.

[kcb]

I'm at about 203lbs right now. Again, this last weekend, I binged my ass off eating everything in sight. We had relatives in, so April bought a bunch of food that they usually eat (Oreo's, chips, pizza, etc).

This morning I ran 3 miles in a pretty decent time. This week I'm starting a calisthenic-only routine combined with a pull day so my pulling muscles aren't neglected. We'll see how that works out.

[Alfuh]

Man, I despise low carb days. I've been mixing in low carb days for my off days of training and I gotta say, I'd rather train every day and eat everything in site than train less and watch what I eat.
I have no idea how anyone can do stuff like this for months at a time or make it a lifestyle choice. For breakfast I had a shake with plenty o' carbs and cals, but since then have only had fruit, nuts, fish oil, and tuna with mayo. Man it sucks. I have an apple, almonds, and fish oil to look forward to as a snack until I get out of work.

The only way I could survive on low carbs is with plenty of hearty vegetables and healthy doses of steak. Of which I have neither right now.

[Pandora's Sweaty Box]

I agree that the low carb diet is REALLY hard. I may be successful for a few days but then I end up sleep walking to Krispy Kream or 7Eleven.

The way I have been managing lately is to eat carbs w/ breakfast and lunch - keeping them to whole grains mostly. For dinner on most days I stick to the meat and vegetables combination. Desert is limited to the weekends if at all. I added additional workouts during the week to compensate for the binge days. I started at 185 a few of months ago and am stuck around 175-177 right now. My waist line is still dropping though so I must be trading muscle for fat to some extent. I'm ok with that - the weight loss is really a secondary goal to just losing the fattyness.

Keep it up Alfuh! You can do it!!![/rob schneider]