Morales vs. Gomez: Two best at 122

[CROKICK]

These are my top 2 guys ever at 122 lbs. I think this would be a great match as we would see if Erik could out box and hurt Gomez and if Gomez could break that chin of Morales. First off both guys can hit hard but Gomez is the hardest hitter ever at 122 and is in my top 10 all time P4P. The thing about Gomez is if you look at his KO record you would think he is a head hunter but he was just as effective and brutal to the body(I have seen him end many fights to the body). They are both tough guys but I have never seen Erik come close to being stopped, his toughness is legendary IMO. He can be hurt to the body but I believe he is very sound there as he has taken 3 fights worth of them vs. Barrera and came out OK. I think if Erik keeps distance and uses his reach he could win a decision or get a late stoppage. He would have the size and strength advantage and if he fought smart could hurt Gomez throughout the fight. If he looked to brawl I think Gomez would have a good chance. Although I have never seen Erik close to being stopped or really being knocked down, Gomez is certainly the guy that could do it. That said I dont think Gomez has enough to get it done. If he hurts Erik, Morales can get back to boxing and do some good work from the outside using his reach. Gomez has much better defense than the not so ring savvy Morales but both will land throughout the fight IMO. Plus in a brawl situation Morales isnt the only one vulnerable. Gomez' chin is much more questionable and I think Eriks combo of size, strength and toughness at 122 gets the job done in a great fight. What do you think?

[Mold with a Generous Heart]

I also believe Erik's toughness is legendary. Dude probably wouldnt give up even if both his wrists are broken.

[Sharkey]

Wilfredo Gomez vs. Erik Morales (Favourites listed first. Our selection in bold type.)

I'll sit down tomorrow, MexiCro, and watch a couple/few fights of each of them before coming to a definate decision on how I think the fight plays out.

[CROKICK]

Wilfredo Gomez vs. Erik Morales (Favourites listed first. Our selection in bold type.)

I'll sit down tomorrow, MexiCro, and watch a couple/few fights of each of them before coming to a definate decision on how I think the fight plays out.
LOL at Mexicro, very good. Im very interested in your input Sharks.

[Kamehameha]

Gomez vs. Morales

as tough as it is for me to stay unbiased w/ this, i'll try:

Morales is tougher than a "coffin nail". He has a crazy combination of granite chin w/ great equilibrium, b/c a lot of knockdowns as u all know are from merely being caught off balance. He's proven himself w/ some strong punchers time and time again.

BUT

he hasn't faced someone w/ the ridiculous power of my man Gomez. A chin may be stone but a good jackhammer can tear through it. Gomez wouldn't stay away and let u breath. Sooner or later he would put Morales down, and so the real factor of the fight would be if Morales can keep getting up and last the entire fight.

[Sharkey]

Ok Cro, I know I said this fight would be close a couple of days ago, but now I'm not so sure about that....I think Morales could be pretty competitive with Gomez, but for me Gomez is the pretty clear winner of this matchup....

Gomez was simply the better all-around and more talented fighter of the two, as he'd have some advantages in power, quickness (hand and especially foot), stamina, defensive skills (clearly he was MUCH tougher to hit than Morales), counter punching, pure boxing skills, and an ability to stick to the gameplan....Morales would have the better chin and the height/reach advantage, but unless I'm missing something, there's not much else he does better than Gomez....

Unlike yourself, I see Morales as being more of the aggressor in this matchup. I mean, IF Morales stuck to the outside he could use his reach and nice boxing skills to shoot those straight punches of his right up the middle, I'd then give him a decent chance of maybe sqeaking out a decision win. But let's face it....When has Morales ever stuck to a strict outside game in a fight? Much too often, if he gets hit with a solid punch, he's coming back at you to even the score....That warrior spirit of his is definately an admirable trait to have, and one of the reasons Morales is such a special fighter in today's day and age. But against Gomez, I think that fighting spirit is definately going to work against him....

Gomez is just too good on the inside for Morales in this fight, as he showed a great ability to slip/duck punches in the trenches (Zarate barely touched him with his straight power shots at mid range, so I don't see why Morales would have much success, either) , before coming back and nailing his opponents with quick, very powerful and accurate counter punches (couple that with Morales less than stellar defensive game)....And on the outside, Gomez' footwork (moving 'side to side' or 'in and out'), quick boxing skills (very quick jab) and defensive game are going to be a good/even match for Morales' own boxing skills behind his reach....

I think Gomez is the pretty clear winner of this fight, my friend, and that's not to say Morales isn't a great fighter....He definately is. But in this fight he's simply facing someone whose a full level higher than him....

Wildredo Gomez -W 12/15- Erik Morales

Morales is going to have his moments early in the fight, but I think eventually Gomez is going to take control and land a SHITLOAD of hard counterpunches on Morales (Gomez is the stronger and more dominant, late rounds fighter of the two). I'll give Morales' chin the benifit of the doubt though, and say he lasts the distance, even though it's very likely his face is going to look....Well, you know....Beat up.

[CROKICK]

Ok Cro, I know I said this fight would be close a couple of days ago, but now I'm not so sure about that....I think Morales could be pretty competitive with Gomez, but for me Gomez is the pretty clear winner of this matchup....

Gomez was simply the better all-around and more talented fighter of the two, as he'd have some advantages in power, quickness (hand and especially foot), stamina, defensive skills (clearly he was MUCH tougher to hit than Morales), counter punching, pure boxing skills, and an ability to stick to the gameplan....Morales would have the better chin and the height/reach advantage, but unless I'm missing something, there's not much else he does better than Gomez....

Unlike yourself, I see Morales as being more of the aggressor in this matchup. I mean, IF Morales stuck to the outside he could use his reach and nice boxing skills to shoot those straight punches of his right up the middle, I'd then give him a decent chance of maybe sqeaking out a decision win. But let's face it....When has Morales ever stuck to a strict outside game in a fight? Much too often, if he gets hit with a solid punch, he's coming back at you to even the score....That warrior spirit of his is definately an admirable trait to have, and one of the reasons Morales is such a special fighter in today's day and age. But against Gomez, I think that fighting spirit is definately going to work against him....

Gomez is just too good on the inside for Morales in this fight, as he showed a great ability to slip/duck punches in the trenches (Zarate barely touched him with his straight power shots at mid range, so I don't see why Morales would have much success, either) , before coming back and nailing his opponents with quick, very powerful and accurate counter punches (couple that with Morales less than stellar defensive game)....And on the outside, Gomez' footwork (moving 'side to side' or 'in and out'), quick boxing skills (very quick jab) and defensive game are going to be a good/even match for Morales' own boxing skills behind his reach....

I think Gomez is the pretty clear winner of this fight, my friend, and that's not to say Morales isn't a great fighter....He definately is. But in this fight he's simply facing someone whose a full level higher than him....

Wildredo Gomez -W 12/15- Erik Morales

Morales is going to have his moments early in the fight, but I think eventually Gomez is going to take control and land a SHITLOAD of hard counterpunches on Morales (Gomez is the stronger and more dominant, late rounds fighter of the two). I'll give Morales' chin the benifit of the doubt though, and say he lasts the distance, even though it's very likely his face is going to look....Well, you know....Beat up.

Thanks for the input Shark. I agree with most of your asessment for sure. I wasnt trying to say that Erik would stay outside and use his reach/boxing ability I was merely saying that it would be the only way he would have a better than average chance of winning. Being that he isnt known for fighting the smart fight though we should assume that he comes to fight Gomez. In that way we are already leaning toward Gomez because he didnt have such a history of poor ring generalship and ring generalship is the only way Erik wins. He needs to pick his spots, and fight smart. I think it comes down to either Erik is going to get to Gomez early or Gomez wins by UD. Upon watching my Gomez fights again I realized just how good he was defensively and that it would be hard for Erik land as much as Gomez would. That alone should be enough to make Gomez the clear winner but I feel that Eriks toughness and size/strength advantage could win albeit early. If it goes past 6 Gomez has it. Surely a more solid overall and maybe one of the most solid fighters ever. If Morales was to win it would be in the fashion that Sanchez beat Gomez. Use size, strength and chin to muscle Gomez and land your shots when you have your chance so you can get the stoppable Gomez out of there. Like you said anything after that and Gomez gets set and counterpunches Erik through the evening on the way to a UD but not by a landslide IMO. Either way both guys will have their moments but the odds are certainly stacked in Gomez favor. Wilfredo Gomez #1 122lber ever. ;)

[Sharkey]

Wilfredo Gomez #1 122lber ever. ;)

*hefty claps*

Unless you're being sarcastic with that comment, my friend. :confused:

Nah, you know sometimes we hear about who the 'greatest fighters per division' are so often that we just come to believe it as gospel after awhile....Duran, Jofre, Ali, Gomez, etc.,etc., all seem to be the consensus pick as the greatest fighters in there respective divisions, but in some of those instances I'm not so sure if they truly are the best. I'm trying to get away from the consensus opinion and form my 100% own, which is one of the reasons why I have some Jofre fights on the way....I haven't seen him since way back when, and I want to judge him again with my own two eyes to see if he really is the best in my mind. And if I don't see something that distinguishes him from the likes of Zarate, Olivares, etc., I'll probably take him out of the top spot and put someone else in there (George Dixon, who I can make a damn good case for, even though I've never seen him....I've done TONS of reading done on the great fighter over the last year or so)....

But until an all-time great comes along and absolutely dominates the 122 lbs division in the future, Gomez is going to be my 'no doubts' pick as the greatest fighter in history of this division, which is what the common opinion is from boxing fans....Unlike other divisions and who are thought to be the best fighter to ever fight in them, that's one consensus opinion that I'm definately going to agree with....

As far as Morales stopping Gomez in the early rounds. I suppose when you combine Morales' very good power (at that weight) with Gomez' less than bullet proof chin (although at this weight, I think he showed a pretty good chin against some big bangers at 122....but it isn't exactly a strength of his, for sure), the possibility is there for an early KO win for Morales, I guess....It's possible but highly unlikely, IMO, and I think that'd be one of those very fluky situations that happen every now and then, and definately against the odds. Even when Gomez was hurt in the early goings, he showed an absolutely tremendous heart (Yum, Pintor, Sanchez, Lockridge, Nelson, etc., etc.), and at times showed an ability to come back to win (for one,Yum knocked Gomez down in the opening moments of that fight, and hurt him on a couple of other occasions)....The best I can see happening which wouldn't be suck a 'fluke' incident, would be a possible knockdown scored by Morales in the early goings, and that's about as far as I can go with that. But like I said, Gomez showed tremendous fighting heart on many occasions (and the ability to come back to win), so I don't think a knockdown would have much of an impact in deciding the fight besides an extra point in the scoring for Morales....

Hey Cro, I don't see it as a "landslide" victory for Gomez either. But I do see him as the pretty clear winner of the fight.

[CROKICK]

*hefty claps*

Unless you're being sarcastic with that comment, my friend. :confused:

Nah, you know sometimes we hear about who the 'greatest fighters per division' are so often that we just come to believe it as gospel after awhile....Duran, Jofre, Ali, Gomez, etc.,etc., all seem to be the consensus pick as the greatest fighters in there respective divisions, but in some of those instances I'm not so sure if they truly are the best. I'm trying to get away from the consensus opinion and form my 100% own, which is one of the reasons why I have some Jofre fights on the way....I haven't seen him since way back when, and I want to judge him again with my own two eyes to see if he really is the best in my mind. And if I don't see something that distinguishes him from the likes of Zarate, Olivares, etc., I'll probably take him out of the top spot and put someone else in there (George Dixon, who I can make a damn good case for, even though I've never seen him....I've done TONS of reading done on the great fighter over the last year or so)....

But until an all-time great comes along and absolutely dominates the 122 lbs division in the future, Gomez is going to be my 'no doubts' pick as the greatest fighter in history of this division, which is what the common opinion is from boxing fans....Unlike other divisions and who are thought to be the best fighter to ever fight in them, that's one consensus opinion that I'm definately going to agree with....

As far as Morales stopping Gomez in the early rounds. I suppose when you combine Morales' very good power (at that weight) with Gomez' less than bullet proof chin (although at this weight, I think he showed a pretty good chin against some big bangers at 122....but it isn't exactly a strength of his, for sure), the possibility is there for an early KO win for Morales, I guess....It's possible but highly unlikely, IMO, and I think that'd be one of those very fluky situations that happen every now and then, and definately against the odds. Even when Gomez was hurt in the early goings, he showed an absolutely tremendous heart (Yum, Pintor, Sanchez, Lockridge, Nelson, etc., etc.), and at times showed an ability to come back to win (for one,Yum knocked Gomez down in the opening moments of that fight, and hurt him on a couple of other occasions)....The best I can see happening which wouldn't be suck a 'fluke' incident, would be a possible knockdown scored by Morales in the early goings, and that's about as far as I can go with that. But like I said, Gomez showed tremendous fighting heart on many occasions (and the ability to come back to win), so I don't think a knockdown would have much of an impact in deciding the fight besides an extra point in the scoring for Morales....

Hey Cro, I don't see it as a "landslide" victory for Gomez either. But I do see him as the pretty clear winner of the fight.

Im glad to hear your opinions on this topic. I was serious about the Gomez #1 comment for sure. I kind of have trouble going with the flow of what everyone else thinks at times and if I remember correctly I probably put Erik as my #1 122lber on our divisional rankings a while back. But I have watched more and more Gomez and have really realized how great he was and how he really didnt have alot of holes in his game. Im sure Im a bit biased towards Morales as he is one of my faves and someone who is really good for the sport IMO but I do give him a chance in this matchup although not as much as I had first posted for sure. Its funny how things change when you go back and study some tape Ill tell you. Also I probably put a little too much stock into Eriks strength and chin because of how he has held up and been at championship level up to 130 without losing too much. Alot of times small size difference isnt a huge factor in a fight but sometimes it is. I dont know man. Im defineitly hearing what youre saying and Im more on your side of the line at this point. Thanks for the discussion and knowledge bud, its always a pleasure.

[Sharkey]

Im glad to hear your opinions on this topic. I was serious about the Gomez #1 comment for sure. I kind of have trouble going with the flow of what everyone else thinks at times and if I remember correctly I probably put Erik as my #1 122lber on our divisional rankings a while back. But I have watched more and more Gomez and have really realized how great he was and how he really didnt have alot of holes in his game. Im sure Im a bit biased towards Morales as he is one of my faves and someone who is really good for the sport IMO but I do give him a chance in this matchup although not as much as I had first posted for sure. Its funny how things change when you go back and study some tape Ill tell you. Also I probably put a little too much stock into Eriks strength and chin because of how he has held up and been at championship level up to 130 without losing too much. Alot of times small size difference isnt a huge factor in a fight but sometimes it is. I dont know man. Im defineitly hearing what youre saying and Im more on your side of the line at this point. Thanks for the discussion and knowledge bud, its always a pleasure.

Cro, I think it's friggin' cool that you don't follow the 'normal' thinking and have the ability to make up your own mind as to who you think are the best fighters in the history of each division. In fact, I think I gave you a thumbs up or something, when you ranked Morales as the all-time greatest 122 pounder back when we did those rankings....

But anyways, what about a matchup between Morales and Fenech at this weight? I think I ranked Fenech #2 when we did those rankings of the Jr. Featherweights, and that was mostly on how I percieved him doing in head-to-head matchups with the others. Fenech's resume doesn't quite stack up to Morales' at this weight, but back then and without too much thought, I favoured him to win an absolute WAR over Erik....

What do you think, buddy?

[elgigante]

I think Fenech would KO Morales late. If he can survive wars with a prime Azumah Nelson, he can go with morales

[CROKICK]

Cro, I think it's friggin' cool that you don't follow the 'normal' thinking and have the ability to make up your own mind as to who you think are the best fighters in the history of each division. In fact, I think I gave you a thumbs up or something, when you ranked Morales as the all-time greatest 122 pounder back when we did those rankings....

But anyways, what about a matchup between Morales and Fenech at this weight? I think I ranked Fenech #2 when we did those rankings of the Jr. Featherweights, and that was mostly on how I percieved him doing in head-to-head matchups with the others. Fenech's resume doesn't quite stack up to Morales' at this weight, but back then and without too much thought, I favoured him to win an absolute WAR over Erik....

What do you think, buddy?
That is a great matchup between two guys who just wont quit coming. Fenech had a short but brilliant career and was an absolute terror in the ring. The thing is I look at him like Tyson in that if you arent backing away and arent scared of him, he can be beaten. Erik certainly has the beard to handle Fenechs attack and the power and skill to either KO Fenech or decision him. But Fenechs relentlessness and output could win Jeff the fight in a close Morales-MAB type of slugfest. If anyone gets stopped it will be Fenech IMO. I would give Jeff the slightest edge if it goes to decision but I wouldnt be suprised to see Erik stop him mid to late either.