Question for MMA experts: about weigh ins.

[GORT]

A comment about St-Pierre got me thinking about the difference between weigh in weight and fight weight. Rogan said GSP weighed 185 at fight time. What's the biggest fluctuation possible between weigh in weight and fight weight? What effect does it have? Why not just fight within your natrual weight class? Is this information kept track of? Is this fair? Sorry for all the questions, any information on the subject would be appreciated.

[dy-no-mite3000]

yanno it was something I pondered back in the day as well.

It is VERY common for people to cut weight to make a weight then gain it back after the weigh ins. captain heel hook is a SERIOUSLY good source for the exact details on cutting and hwat it does for you.


When guys CUT weight they are excreating water/water weight. SO after weighing in they drink water, gatorade, eat protein etc to rehydrate their bodies for 24 hours before the fight. I have heard Matt Hughes when he FIGHTS weighs in anywhere from 175 to 180 lbs Looking @ st.Pierre you have to agree he has to be 180-185.

A guy like Tito or ANY 205 fighter ha sbeen said to be up around 215-to even 220 after putting back the water in their bodies.

[H]

i dont know the biggest possible fluctuation in weight, im sure it could vary person to person. some people cut weight to make weight because either their bodies are too small for their natural weight, ect. some people IMO will do it for an advantage, to be the bigger guy in there. for example, a guy like Joe Riggs cut all the way down to 185 when he formerly weighed 250lbs heavyweight. advantage for him is that he still has the power of a 250lb man from the years of carrying that weight and fighting at that weight. so IMO people do it for the strength advantage from being heavier, or their frames just dont work well with their regular weight, like Igor Vovchanchyn dropping. he was HW but on a 5'8" frame it began to get tough for him to hang with the bigger, taller, heavies. he drops down, now everyone is equal.

[dy-no-mite3000]

as far as joe riggs goes he WAS 250 but now natually walks around 190-195lbs.

Phil baroni flucuates between 205 and 215 when not in fight mode.


cutting as much weight as possible makes you a bigger stronger guy than a natural guy @ that weight.

[H]

well yeah, i know that. i know the guy. i was just stating that is what came from cutting weight to make 185. now he is 190-200lbs walking around.

[dy-no-mite3000]

ah ok..sorry sir. afterall you are the mma mod not me.

[PhatRick]

I can not remember what show I watched... it was a smaller one that I DL'ed a while ago...

if I remember correctly they said one of the fighters gained back like 35 lbs after weighins.... that shit is just crazy

[CHH]

Cutting weight is an interesting point. It's like the last stigma left in sports. Most athletes have come to accept steroids and yet cutting weight is anathema to some. Here's my take on it: Cutting/manipulating weight is no more unfair than pinning someone against the cage and elbowing them for a cut. The rules are encouraging you, with 24 hours to rehydrate after weigh ins, so you might as well do it. If you don't, everyone else is going to and you will be at the disadvantage.

The reason people cut weight is so they are fighting at a maximum amount of muscle weight vs their opponent. Your body has a lot of weight in it at any given time that you don't need to fight. Examples are excrement, urine, sweat in the pores, hair, and blood (just kidding). If you know your physiology well enough, you can lose fair quantites of this stuff without harming yourself, and fight at a lighter weight class with maximal strength. If you DON'T know your physiology you end up tiring yourself out and you fight like you've already gone 10 rounds. When they rehydrate after weighins, most fighters don't recover all of their weight, but usually around 50%-75% of it.

Most fighters fight close to their natural weight class, within 10-15 pounds. This is what I call a "kids cut", not cuz it's easy but it's what you'll see most high school wrestlers shoot for. It's relatively safe and should be good for an intermediate cutter. Anymore, if you fight within 1-9 pounds of your weight class you're said to be fighting at natural weight. Anything past 15 and you're starting to get into the elite cutters. The best cutter in the business, in my opinion, is Randleman. He weighed in at 228 for the heavyweight Grand Prix, while directly before that he was fighting at 205. That's a 23 pound cut and judging by his energy at 205 he could probably stand to lose a few more.

The average person fluctuates 4 pounds either way in any given day, in the same clothes. So these numbers may sound extreme, but a 10 pound cut in 7 days is really nothing for a finely tuned athlete. If there's any demand I'll post some of my top secret cutting strategies........not all though. Some are trade secrets ;)

[PhatRick]

I would love to hear your cutting strategies...

[H]

ah ok..sorry sir. afterall you are the mma mod not me.

LOL. its all good fucker. i just wanted to point out that i wasnt dumb enough to actually mean he cut down from 250 to 185 every fight :)

[CHH]

I would love to hear your cutting strategies...This post will not cover any fat burning. One would assume if you're cutting unhealthy amounts of weight, you're BF% is as low as you can get it. Also I'm assuming no one needs to go over the basics......but in case you do

-Limit your water intake
-Run in a sweat suit. Like vinyl material, not the trendy shit celebs wear
-Work out in a sauna
-Limit food intake to low mass/high energy content food. A piece of chicken breast and honey with water and lemon is good
-Shit and piss as much as you can right before weigh in

Here's some more hardcore shit depending on how long you've been cutting and how much you want to spend.
-Ionized water. I won't get into the details, but one glass of ionized water hydrates you equal to 8 glasses of regular water. You do the math
-Diuretics. These are basically things you can ingest that draw fluid out of your body as they pass through. The simplest would be cranberry juice or soda pop, with the most complex being intravenous injections like lasix. There's a whole shitwhack of them, and I'm no medical dictionary.
-Colonics. Despite not being advertised as a weight loss aid (and I've called and asked, they WILL chastize you) most people lose between 4-8 pounds on their first visit. That's 4-8 pounds of shit in your body you don't need if you're about to fight for the Pride MW title

<--- not a doctor. This isn't a liability sentence to cover my ass......this is deadly serious stuff. Take 50mgs of oral lasix every 6 hours while only drinking a glass of water a day, and not taking the right supplements and you will fucking DIE! That's not joke, many people have died from dehydration, so if you wanna be one of those guys that walks at 234 and wants to fight at LHW, then you need to talk to your doctor, start cutting SLOWLY, and read read read read read

[GORT]

Thanks for answering some of the questions, but there is still one point I don't understand. Take the Joe Riggs or Vovchanchyn example. Just because you were previously 250 and drop down to middleweight, it doesn't mean you have the same power as you did when you were 250 (even if you gain back 10-15 pounds after weigh in). I just don't understand the logic of someone saying that X fighter has the punching power of heavyweight because he used to be a heavyweight. If anything, I would see the it as an advantage for the natrual middleweight since his power is generated by technique and strength. Suppose the heavyweight overdepended on weight and strength for his punching power, then he wouldn't have that when he dropped weight. He would need to use technique, which he might not have, since maybe he never needed it before. I hear this logic a lot, so if any one understands the principle let us know.

I just want to clarify, this is different than a naturally heavier fighter gaining weight back after the weigh in. This is about a fighter supposedly still having the same power (or proportionally similar power) as they did when they were heavier.

[GORT]

TTT for Slim Fast.

[TILSON]

Chris Brennen wrote a good article on MMA weekly a couple of years back called "Cutting Weight the right way" It had a lot of good stuff in it. I had a buddy that tool Lasix so he could get a better rate on life insurance but that shit is not to be taken lightly. Josh Thompson is a insane weight cutter. When he fights at 155 he weighs at least 175 on fight day.

[Ratt]

I wonder is just hooking yourself up to an IV would be the easiest and best way to rehydrate?

[TILSON]

I wonder is just hooking yourself up to an IV would be the easiest and best way to rehydrate?


That is done more than you would think.

[Ratt]

Can't see why not, safe easy and fast. Hell I know Nurses who take IV along on weekend benders to recover in the morning. Bottles of O2 also.