View Full Version : The Tyson legacy.
Johnny Toetags
06-14-2005, 01:05 AM
So.
Top 10?
Top 15?
...Top 5 heavyweights of all time?
Why do you rank him where you do... and does all the, shall we say, surrounding hoopla, affect his rank? And if so, how?
DCBooks
06-14-2005, 01:17 AM
I think his infamous nature easily ranks him top 5.
Name 5 other boxers who will be remembered more than Mike.
Ali is the only one I can think of. That's not to say he's better than all the others, just better known.
Kamehameha
06-14-2005, 01:22 AM
it would be a travesty to rank Tyson according to his last 4 fights or so. Kinda the same thing has happened to Roy Jones, whose been bumped down big time after getting KOed. People ignore the years and years before, the outstanding accomplishments and talents, and think the fighters we see before us now are a reflection upon their great pasts.
Tyson should be go down as a legend, no question. Youngest HW champ, near invincible in his prime, made boxing popular, a living machine of destruction, before all these crap desperate money matches, he was one of the most dominate HW in a long time. While he may of been a scumbag who wanted to stomp children's testicles, as far as boxing goes, he should be made legendary.
elgigante
06-14-2005, 01:23 AM
I think his infamous nature easily ranks him top 5.
Name 5 other boxers who will be remembered more than Mike.
Ali is the only one I can think of. That's not to say he's better than all the others, just better known.
In terms of actual boxers?
George Foreman
Marvin Hagler
Sugar Ray Leonard
Evander Holyfield
and Ali at least
And Ali beats prime Tyson ten out of ten times
Johnny Toetags
06-14-2005, 02:27 AM
Not sure about 10 times out of 10 there Giga, but it's interesting to see that people think his aura of infamy/mystique actually works in his favor as far as legacy goes - and you know what, I'd tend to agree.
CROKICK
06-14-2005, 02:47 AM
His legacy is being the most overrated fighter ever, especially by casual fans who dont even know the names of the 12-15 HW's who were better than him.
not even close. he was on the road to become one of the greatest heavyweights ever, you have no idea. It was really the Cus D'amato legacy but I guess Tyson came along too late. but if he still had the emotional and professional guidance he had before Cus and Jim Jacobs passed he would have become much greater than he ever showed. for actual merit, top 15 maybe. just for his legend top 3.
his story really illustrates though, that boxing is about so much more than the physical and tangible. Tyson was very sensitive and aware of the invisible emotional and psychological details that are part of the makeup of a great champion, and after the loss of his emotional support he lost control of those things and could no longer focus his psychic abilities constructively in the ring. Remember Boxing is a highly intensive pressure sport, and once this happens you basically are done, no matter your talent, knowledge, or physical attributes. D'amato once said that your greatest asset can become your greatest weakness and he was so right in this case.
for the record I believe he was overrated for what he accomplished, although if brought along right he'd have become technically one of the greatest fighters ever produced.
Tyson will just fade away into bolivion.
elgigante
06-14-2005, 06:07 AM
for the record I believe he was overrated for what he accomplished, although if brought along right he'd have become technically one of the greatest fighters ever produced.
i concur with this statement. we all make our own beds in life but damn if Don King and Robin Givens didnt play at least some small role in fucking up Mike's path to glory
natecrime
06-14-2005, 12:34 PM
I'd rate Tyson in the top 15, this because I can name at least 7/8/9 boxers who achieved more than him or have better records, and i'm sure there's more that have slipped my mind that could push him back a few places. He is overratted, but he was amazing.
Oliver Klosov
06-14-2005, 02:04 PM
he wasn't mentally tough enough. If you could show him that you weren't scared of him then you pretty much had him beat at that point.
he wasn't mentally tough enough. If you could show him that you weren't scared of him then you pretty much had him beat at that point.
that was his greatest strength and weakness, like I said. D'amato realized that Tyson naturally carried alot of fear and self doubt but this could be used to his advantage in the ring if he could project these emotions onto his opponent. Once they died his emotional support system did too, and he began projecting these emotions inward therefore self-defeating whenever he got in the ring. The only person to really beat Tyson was his own emotions
CROKICK
06-14-2005, 03:20 PM
This is what it comes down to. Mike was a beast in the ring with awesome skills. Huge power and quickness in bot hands and he could give anyone trouble. But, all it takes to beat him is a skilled HW with more heart and guts than him. He could be worn down and when the going gets tough Tyson quits. Anyone who is not intimidated by him and hits back can beat him. He looked great against guys who were shaking in the staredown but once he started fighting tough quality opposition he lost and was beat up. He never had the heart or brainpower to be as goodas everyone thought he could be.
Optimus Van Optimum
06-14-2005, 03:22 PM
It is sad to see what happened to Tyson. Even in his last few fights I still pulled for him. I always had a little hope that Kid Dynamite would come out for a while.
ramelman
06-14-2005, 03:42 PM
it would be a travesty to rank Tyson according to his last 4 fights or so. Kinda the same thing has happened to Roy Jones, whose been bumped down big time after getting KOed. People ignore the years and years before, the outstanding accomplishments and talents, and think the fighters we see before us now are a reflection upon their great pasts.
Tyson should be go down as a legend, no question. Youngest HW champ, near invincible in his prime, made boxing popular, a living machine of destruction, before all these crap desperate money matches, he was one of the most dominate HW in a long time. While he may of been a scumbag who wanted to stomp children's testicles, as far as boxing goes, he should be made legendary.
nice post. i agree completely. he had such a short prime, though, so that should justifiably hurt his standing.
Happy Boy
06-16-2005, 12:41 PM
He'll be remembered as the guy who made people watch boxing again and injected unmeasured excitement into the sport, a level of excitement which hasnt ever been reached before or since his hayday IMO.
As for his actual rating as a boxer, its an old chestnut which will never be fully resolved. Some say he was the greatest puncher and all that which is not true as there has been several who have hit harder, others say he was overrated and never beat anyone which is also untrue.
I think the fairest way to appraise him (and Im a long long fan) is to say he was a highly talented and explosive boxer who, for personal reasons, never reached the heights he should have, but for his late 80's domination and what this did for the sport, deserves a spot int he top 10/HOF.
Its so sad to see him today, one of the saddest sights in boxing. Some love to see him getting pounded, I dont.
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