Does it bother anyone else that...

[J. Walter Weatherman]

In the past week, 3 boxers have given up during fights?

Tzyu gave up against Hatton
Tyson gave up against McBride
Abdullaeve (sp) gave up against Cotto. He could have gone on. I mean, his eye was bad, but I've seen guys fight with worse. Is this becoming a trend?

[Sir Gibbs]

I was only bothered by tyson's giving up

[Alf]

not really. The europeans are not embarrassed to quit on their stool, cowardice is like a virtue to them. in Tyson's case it bothered me some but at least I knew where he was coming from.

[CROKICK]

In the past week, 3 boxers have given up during fights?

Tzyu gave up against Hatton
Tyson gave up against McBride
Abdullaeve (sp) gave up against Cotto. He could have gone on. I mean, his eye was bad, but I've seen guys fight with worse. Is this becoming a trend?
Just so you know ring doctors usually wont let a guy fight once his eye is totally closed. Abdullaev was going to be in that predicament by the end of the round and couldnt see to throw his punches. The only bothersome one is Tyson because he punked out once again after wasting peoples time and money.

[ramelman]

it's way too dangerous to fight with one eye completely shut. not only will he not see a lot of punches coming, but he instantly losses depth perception, so that he can't gauge how far his opponent is for throwing his own punches, and he can't gauge how far his opponent's punches are. he's a target, plain and simple. probably more dangerous than fighting with one broken hand.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

He should have let the doctors determine that for him. Kostya Tszyu quitting doesn't bother any of you either?

[CROKICK]

He should have let the doctors determine that for him. Kostya Tszyu quitting doesn't bother any of you either?
Kostya is one of my favorites and it hurt to see him go out like that but it isnt like he has a history of punking out or anything. The fact that he lost the fight bothered me more than the fact that he knew he was beaten and gave up.

[Kamehameha]

it's difficult for us to say whether someone can go on or not. The ref (or doc) has to make a very quick decision to make under pressure, as well as the fighter (although their opinion isn't always trustworthy in the heat of the moment). Hindsight is 20/20.

[Happy Boy]

The europeans are not embarrassed to quit on their stool, cowardice is like a virtue to them.

Thats absolute crap.

Have you seen Danny Williams carry on one handed with a dislocated shoulder to go on and knock a guy out? Or continue to get up after being battered senseless by VK?

Guess what, hes from England, thats in Europe.

Or Wayne McCullough. He has the best beard in all of boxing and has kept going when Morales was landing endless bombs off his skull. Did he fail to answer the bell at any stage?? No. Hes from Ireland, thats in Europe.

Away from this idiot to the subject of quitting.

I have no problem with a boxer quitting. They are the ones in there feeling the pain and going through the torture, so who are we to expect them to carry on going for our amusement? Cos we paid ?40. Rubbish. They have a life, family and friends to return to, they are in there, not us, so if any of them think they are in too much pain to continue, they are the ones to make the call, and nobody should ridicule them for it IMO.

[Alf]

Thats absolute crap.

Have you seen Danny Williams carry on one handed with a dislocated shoulder to go on and knock a guy out? Or continue to get up after being battered senseless by VK?

Guess what, hes from England, thats in Europe.

Or Wayne McCullough. He has the best beard in all of boxing and has kept going when Morales was landing endless bombs off his skull. Did he fail to answer the bell at any stage?? No. Hes from Ireland, thats in Europe.

Away from this idiot to the subject of quitting.

I have no problem with a boxer quitting. They are the ones in there feeling the pain and going through the torture, so who are we to expect them to carry on going for our amusement? Cos we paid ?40. Rubbish. They have a life, family and friends to return to, they are in there, not us, so if any of them think they are in too much pain to continue, they are the ones to make the call, and nobody should ridicule them for it IMO.
hell yeah I saw Williams do that, it was magnificent. But I said they have no problem with quitting, not like alot of the North American fighters do. There is a unspoken code of boxing in the US and you are obligated to fight until the ref/corner stops it. Never said there weren't any tough men from europe, they just do it differently.

Don't take everything personal, and don't think you can come out and call me an idiot on that. I got something that can take care of that sand in your vagina and it's called my cock, next time just ask and save the namecalling.

[elgigante]

keep it civil gentleman. thanks again
management

[natecrime]

hell yeah I saw Williams do that, it was magnificent. But I said they have no problem with quitting, not like alot of the North American fighters do. There is a unspoken code of boxing in the US and you are obligated to fight until the ref/corner stops it. Never said there weren't any tough men from europe, they just do it differently.

Don't take everything personal, and don't think you can come out and call me an idiot on that. I got something that can take care of that sand in your vagina and it's called my cock, next time just ask and save the namecalling.

You should fight him, he's Irish he will probably give up within rounds.

[Sonny Jilks]

not really. The europeans are not embarrassed to quit on their stool, cowardice is like a virtue to them. in Tyson's case it bothered me some but at least I knew where he was coming from.

I think it's a virtue to show good judgement. It's not pleasant to see fighters who can't string a sentence together. Though in north America it probably goes unnoticed a lot of the time.

[adamn]

The only bothersome one is Tyson because he punked out once again after wasting peoples time and money. It made him some $$. it sounds like he's buying into what the journalists have to said, and he gave up hope.

Or maybe he just had a reality stirke.

[ramelman]

He should have let the doctors determine that for him. Kostya Tszyu quitting doesn't bother any of you either?

no, i don't agree with just relying on the doctor's recommendation to stop a fight. a fighter has a responsibility first to himself and his family; all other things are secondary. referees even start the bout telling boxers to "protect themselves at all times". they mean that the boxers should rely on themselves first, not the ref or the doctor, to take care of their own well being. abdulaev knew that he could no longer protect himself with the injury, so he took the loss instead of possible serious permanent damage.

zoo was mentally beaten hatton, and when his corner recommended that they stop the fight, zoo didn't complain. i'm thinking he was much more damaged than he looked. if his corner inspired him to continue, i think he would. zoo is a smart and well composed fighter, and i wouldn't be surprised if after some time, he asks for a rematch. he definitely wasn't afraid of hatton, but i guess he thought it out that he couldn't win the fight, so he cut his losses. if he went out on the 12th to get ko'd, he'd have a much harder time psychologically beating hatton in a rematch.

[ramelman]

i'd compare what zoo did to the 2 different trains of thought in strenght training through weights.

the more obvious one is to go with the most weight you can lift, increasing until you've reached your max ... you hit the failure point, and you know you've lifted the most that you can.

the other is that you never allow yourself to reach the failure point, so that psychologically, your body believes it can lift so much more, and you always stop before reaching that point. the thinking here is that you end strong, not end in failure.

i think that's what zoo did ... he cut his losses, so that psychologically, he could still believe that he can perform much better and beat hatton in a rematch.

[Happy Boy]

hell yeah I saw Williams do that, it was magnificent. But I said they have no problem with quitting, not like alot of the North American fighters do. There is a unspoken code of boxing in the US and you are obligated to fight until the ref/corner stops it. Never said there weren't any tough men from europe, they just do it differently.

Don't take everything personal, and don't think you can come out and call me an idiot on that. I got something that can take care of that sand in your vagina and it's called my cock, next time just ask and save the namecalling.

Hang on, you are after saying that cowardice is like a virute to Europeans and then having a tilt at me for name calling? If you cant see the hypocracy in that then I dont know if its worth my while answering you.

A fighter's background makes no difference to how they behave in terms of quitting, its down to the individual, not where they are from.

In my opinion, saying fighters from Country X quit more than from Country Y, or that quitting is more accepted in one place over another, is a generalisation which does warrant being called an idiot.

There have been so many cases of Euro fighters fighting on, and US fighters quitting, which completely disprove the generalisation, that I cant believe you even came up with it.

[Happy Boy]

keep it civil gentleman. thanks again
management

Sorry if Im bringing the discussion down, but I have a real personal issue with anti-European generalisations that when they are put forward like that I have to say something. I spent last summer in a Bush-ite part of the US and the amount of anti-European rubbish I took pissed me off to an insane degree, so when I meet ignorance like this I get wound up pretty badly.

[Sonny Jilks]

:rolleyes: Racism on BK I'm shocked.

[Alf]

:rolleyes: Racism on BK I'm shocked.
not exactly, and I wouldn't even say it was nationalism, but more of a general cultural observation. don't get it twisted, I agree that it's the individual but as a culture I believe the europeans don't have the same regard when it comes to quiting in boxing.

[natecrime]

not exactly, and I wouldn't even say it was nationalism, but more of a general cultural observation. don't get it twisted, I agree that it's the individual but as a culture I believe the europeans don't have the same regard when it comes to quiting in boxing.

I believe that you're wrong, it's entirely based on the fighter rather than the country they were born in, I think that it's ridiculous to say otherwise. And if you're talking about it as a cultural observation, sorry to burst the bubble but I don't think that you Americans or us British can even begin to compare to the heart that exists within some of the countries of Eastern Europe, and I think that this point is reflected in MMA and other sports. I know you're only talking about boxing, but still.

[elgigante]

Sorry if Im bringing the discussion down, but I have a real personal issue with anti-European generalisations that when they are put forward like that I have to say something. I spent last summer in a Bush-ite part of the US and the amount of anti-European rubbish I took pissed me off to an insane degree, so when I meet ignorance like this I get wound up pretty badly.

Actually I didnt mean it towards you. Poor choice of words by Alf to start all of this off and the conversation degenerated abit from there. just trying to steer it on track.im not Tam strict by any means but i appreciate stuff being on topic for the most part here.

[CROKICK]

Actually I didnt mean it towards you. Poor choice of words by Alf to start all of this off and the conversation degenerated abit from there. just trying to steer it on track.im not Tam strict by any means but i appreciate stuff being on topic for the most part here.
Whos Tam? :)

[Sonny Jilks]

not exactly, and I wouldn't even say it was nationalism, but more of a general cultural observation. don't get it twisted, I agree that it's the individual but as a culture I believe the europeans don't have the same regard when it comes to quiting in boxing.

It seemed a fairly straight forward point that didn't need any twisting at all. You've just repeated it and it doesn't sound any better second time round.

[J. Walter Weatherman]

Some very good replies in this thread (until it turned into this European vs. American/Mexican thing) overall. I can't argue with any of it.