Spoiler* Question about Baroni

[TILSON]

Baroni. After 2 KO wins in Bushido does he make it back into the top 10 at 185? Chonan was in most peoples top 5 so does a win over him cary enough weight to get Phil back in the top 10?

[DCBooks]

Baroni. After 2 KO wins in Bushido does he make it back into the top 10 at 185? Chonan was in most peoples top 5 so does a win over him cary enough weight to get Phil back in the top 10?


I'd have to rank Phil in the top ten. His losses are to a former UFC champ, and a Silver Medalist. He's just dumb enough to get beat by the same two guys twice. Baroni should forget about Pete Sell. He'd just take another nap, and move up to 6 losses.

[natecrime]

No please No, but yes.

[TILSON]

I'd have to rank Phil in the top ten. His losses are to a former UFC champ, and a Silver Medalist. He's just dumb enough to get beat by the same two guys twice. Baroni should forget about Pete Sell. He'd just take another nap, and move up to 6 losses.

I blame the Sell loss on dumbass Marc Laimon. Telling Phil to take him down was stupid. Phil had won the first 2 rounds and they were both tired as hell if the fight would have stayed standing no way Sell would have knocked Phil out and even if Baroni would have lost the round he still would have won the fight. The only way Phil loses that fight is if he takes him down and gets subbed which is what happened.

[dy-no-mite3000]

WRONG FORUM NEWB!

[TILSON]

WRONG FORUM NEWB!


yo momma! Move it then punchie.

[dy-no-mite3000]

Baroni. After 2 KO wins in Bushido does he make it back into the top 10 at 185? Chonan was in most peoples top 5 so does a win over him cary enough weight to get Phil back in the top 10?
yes his past 2 wins in ONLY 8 weeks is more active and big level name brand talent to push him upto 185.

especially since you have the triangle.


A.Silva is in most top 3 rankings @ 185. Chonan took him out and Phil took Chonan out who is ont he lower end of being a A list talent.... maybeb +

[BigJ383]

I don't think it means Baroni is top 10 yet It just means Chonan isn't. I think Baroni made his way back to top 15 now but not top 10 yet. It's not just that Baroni had 4 losses but he had 4 losses in a row and the one against Sell really hurt him. MW is a deep division and a win over Minowa and Chonan aren't enough to put Baroni back in the top 10. I say 1 more good win and he may crack the division. Just because someone gets knocked out of the top 10 it doesn't mean the person who beat him has to replace him.

[my sex is artsy]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BigJ383 again.

[H]

nah. he is on his way though. 185 div is an insanely deep weightclass. i knew Chonan would fall out of that ranking anyways, mainly cuz i knew Baroni would beat him. MSIA wasnt preaching inconsistancy for nothing. Id like to see Baroni fight Kang next. Winner of that could crack 10.....maybe.

[dy-no-mite3000]

give me yout top 10 185'ers then folks.

[Johnny Toetags]

Not yet, but if he keeps this up we won't have much of a choice will we? Anyways out Top 10's gonna be updated soon so you guys can officially vote on this.

[Johnny Toetags]

give me yout top 10 185'ers then folks.
http://www.bloodyknux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2927

[H]

give me yout top 10 185'ers then folks.

are we talking just 185 in Bushido or 185 class period...

[dy-no-mite3000]

are we talking just 185 in Bushido or 185 class period...
we'll go 185 world wide.

[TILSON]

1. Rich Franklin
2. Jeremy Horn
3. Evan Tanner
4. Matt Linland
5. Anderson Silva
6. Murilo Bustamante
7. Ivan Salaverry
8. David Loiseau
9. Nate Marquardt
10. Phil "The New York Bad Ass" Baroni

[my sex is artsy]

1. Rich Franklin
2. Jeremy Horn
3. Evan Tanner
4. Matt Linland
5. Anderson Silva
6. Murilo Bustemante
7. Ivan Salaverry
8. David Loiseau
9. Nate Marquardt
10. Phil "The New York Bad Ass" Baroni

Why is Busta on there? Because he beat Ryuta Sakurai? Doerksen, Acacio, Ximu, Niko, Villasenor and Terrell should all be on there before Busta.

[TILSON]

Why is Busta on there? Because he beat Ryuta Sakurai? Doerksen, Acacio, Ximu, Niko, Villasenor and Terrell should all be on there before Busta.



If he has had a fight at 185 in the last year Busta has to be on there.

You think anyone in that sextet can beat Busta?

[dy-no-mite3000]

busta doesnt belong period.

Win Ryuta Sakurai Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Bushido 6 4/3/2005
Loss Kazuhiro Nakamura Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004
Loss Dan Henderson KO PRIDE-Final Conflict 2003 11/9/2003
Loss Quinton Jackson Decision (Split) PRIDE-Total Elimination 2003 8/10/2003
Win Matt Lindland Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 37-High Impact 5/10/2002
Win Dave Menne TKO (Punches) UFC 35-Throwdown 1/11/2002
Loss Chuck Liddell Decision (Unanimous) UFC 33-Victory in Vegas 9/28/2001

A close fight vs Sakaurai is the only thing worth mentioning in that list.

More importantly his inactivity speaks louder than anything else.

[H]

see stuff like that is why its hard for me to rank that division. i think like 7-15 or so can all be argued somehow.

[TILSON]

busta doesnt belong period.

Win Ryuta Sakurai Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Bushido 6 4/3/2005
Loss Kazuhiro Nakamura Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004
Loss Dan Henderson KO PRIDE-Final Conflict 2003 11/9/2003
Loss Quinton Jackson Decision (Split) PRIDE-Total Elimination 2003 8/10/2003
Win Matt Lindland Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 37-High Impact 5/10/2002
Win Dave Menne TKO (Punches) UFC 35-Throwdown 1/11/2002
Loss Chuck Liddell Decision (Unanimous) UFC 33-Victory in Vegas 9/28/2001

A close fight vs Sakaurai is the only thing worth mentioning in that list.

More importantly his inactivity speaks louder than anything else.

Wow 4 losses at Light Heavy. That is a 185lb. Ranking you know that right?

[Sir Gibbs]

He probably should be the lower end of top 10 now. However he won't be in my rankings as i'm a biased Baloni hating fuck

[H]

hendo = 185lb like Busta fighting bigger ppl.

[H]

He probably should be the lower end of top 10 now. However he won't be in my rankings as i'm a biased Baloni hating fuck

Gibbs Top 5 Open Weight:

1 - Manny Reyes Jr
2 - Manny Reyes Jr
3 - Manny Reyes Jr
4 - Manny Reyes Jr
5 - Manny Reyes Jr

Because he speet hawt fiyah.

[TILSON]

hendo = 185lb like Busta fighting bigger ppl.

Agreed but Hendo hasn't had a fight where he had to make 185 since..... never?

[my sex is artsy]

If he has had a fight at 185 in the last year Busta has to be on there.

You think anyone in that sextet can beat Busta?

Yes. I think Acacio would stomp the ever loving shit out of his face. Terrell could definitely hang on the ground, and may have better stand up though Busta has good boxing. Niko and Villasenor both have better stand up and could maybe bang him out.

Busta is old now, and inactive. His only really good win even remotely recently is Lindland, and that's over three years ago. Not to mention, he's inactive as fuck, and the rankings aren't based on how good a guy was three years ago, and how much he could've accomplished if he fought consistantly.

[Sir Gibbs]

Gibbs Top 5 Open Weight:

1 - Manny Reyes Jr
2 - Manny Reyes Jr
3 - Manny Reyes Jr
4 - Manny Reyes Jr
5 - Manny Reyes Jr

Because he speet hawt fiyah.

I've said it once i'll say it again. He is MMA's crippler.

[H]

Agreed but Hendo hasn't had a fight where he had to make 185 since..... never?

yeah its been a while...

[my sex is artsy]

Wow 4 losses at Light Heavy. That is a 185lb. Ranking you know that right?

Yeah, so he's 1-0 at 185 in the last three years. That really means he should be SIXTH in the one of MMA's most competitive divisions. :rolleyes:

[H]

I've said it once i'll say it again. He is MMA's crippler.

Manny Reyes Jr > Fedor Emelianenko

[dy-no-mite3000]

Wow 4 losses at Light Heavy. That is a 185lb. Ranking you know that right?
ofcourse.

BUT Bustamanche hasnt done shit @ 185 since 2002.
Hence being ranked in the top 10 imo is bravo sierra.

[TILSON]

Yes. I think Acacio would stomp the ever loving shit out of his face. Terrell could definitely hang on the ground, and may have better stand up though Busta has good boxing. Niko and Villasenor both have better stand up and could maybe bang him out.

Busta is old now, and inactive. His only really good win even remotely recently is Lindland, and that's over three years ago. Not to mention, he's inactive as fuck, and the rankings aren't based on how good a guy was three years ago, and how much he could've accomplished if he fought consistantly.


You need to move this to the Fantasy Forum.

SO the MSIA ranking criteria has nothing to do with who the best fighters are only what they have done lately?

Plus of the guys you mentioned the only one to get a win over a top 15 guy is Terrell. And that was 1 punch on Linland. Terrell proved against Tanner he didn't have the balls to be a top guy at 185 yet.

[TILSON]

I can't believe I am having to defend Murilo Bustamante's position as a top fighter.

On that note it is 4PM and I am taking my ball and going home.

[Sir Gibbs]

I can't believe I am having to defend Murilo Bustamante's position as a top fighter.

On that note it is 4PM and I am taking my ball and going home.

I like that such an intellegent debate, with many good views is going on in the forum i named.

It's bringing a tear to my japs eye

[H]

sports is a what have you done for me lately kind of thing. Busta hasnt done much lately. only thing hurting him @ 185 is his inactivity. if he continues to fight regularly and win he will move back into top 10 relativly easy.

[Sir Gibbs]

I think we can all agree on one thing, round about UFC 37 Busta was the fucking man at 185

[The Punk]

I don't think it means Baroni is top 10 yet It just means Chonan isn't. I think Baroni made his way back to top 15 now but not top 10 yet. It's not just that Baroni had 4 losses but he had 4 losses in a row and the one against Sell really hurt him. MW is a deep division and a win over Minowa and Chonan aren't enough to put Baroni back in the top 10. I say 1 more good win and he may crack the division. Just because someone gets knocked out of the top 10 it doesn't mean the person who beat him has to replace him.
Well said.

give me yout top 10 185'ers then folks.
1 - Anderson Silva
2 - Rich Franklin
3 - Jeremy Horn
4 - Evan Tanner
5 - Matt Lindland
6 - Ivan Salaverry
7 - David Terrell
8 - David Loiseau
9 - Joe Doerksen
10 - Jorge Rivera

busta doesnt belong period.

Win Ryuta Sakurai Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Bushido 6 4/3/2005
Loss Kazuhiro Nakamura Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE-Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004
Loss Dan Henderson KO PRIDE-Final Conflict 2003 11/9/2003
Loss Quinton Jackson Decision (Split) PRIDE-Total Elimination 2003 8/10/2003
Win Matt Lindland Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFC 37-High Impact 5/10/2002
Win Dave Menne TKO (Punches) UFC 35-Throwdown 1/11/2002
Loss Chuck Liddell Decision (Unanimous) UFC 33-Victory in Vegas 9/28/2001

A close fight vs Sakaurai is the only thing worth mentioning in that list.

More importantly his inactivity speaks louder than anything else.
I agree that Busta doesn't belong, but his fight with Sakurai was not close and he has more than just one thing worth mentioning. He took both Chuck and Rampage to a close decisions, the latter on less than a week's notice. He beat Lindland twice in the span of just over 10 minutes in one fight. Baroni couldn't beat him once in 2 fights with 30 minutes combined. With that said, he is not deserving of a spot in the current rankings although I think he would beat most of the fighters on them.

Yes. I think Acacio would stomp the ever loving shit out of his face. Terrell could definitely hang on the ground, and may have better stand up though Busta has good boxing. Niko and Villasenor both have better stand up and could maybe bang him out.

Busta is old now, and inactive. His only really good win even remotely recently is Lindland, and that's over three years ago. Not to mention, he's inactive as fuck, and the rankings aren't based on how good a guy was three years ago, and how much he could've accomplished if he fought consistantly.
Even in his current state, I think Busta would beat all the fighters you mentioned. In his prime, he would tool them like he did Lindland. Busta has good everything. His wrestling is good enough to put Rampage on his back, his striking is good enough to hang with Chuck and his submissions speak for themselves. Although I agree that he has no place in the current rankings.

[dy-no-mite3000]

Punk the fact you dont have lee murray in there i agree
also jorge to me shouldnt be 10 right now where as baroni's recent push and big wins deserve spot 10.

Also Silva MAYBE 4 or 5 in my ranking, He hasn't dazzled in his last year of fights and imo his biggest win was vs Jeremy Horn who had an injured groin for the fight.

Franklin's win over Rivera (honorable mention of domianting Shamrock @ 205) and complete defeat of Tanner and the manor in which he did it gives him my top 185 spot...

Also i think Joe Dorks recent wins as well pushes him close to the top half of the 5-10 guys.

[dy-no-mite3000]

I think we can all agree on one thing, round about UFC 37 Busta was the fucking man at 185
tito was king @ 205
the ufc had a stable 155 and 265 div too.

also the us wasnt in a depression....

[The Punk]

Punk the fact you dont have lee murray in there i agree
also jorge to me shouldnt be 10 right now where as baroni's recent push and big wins deserve spot 10.

Also Silva MAYBE 4 or 5 in my ranking, He hasn't dazzled in his last year of fights and imo his biggest win was vs Jeremy Horn who had an injured groin for the fight.

Franklin's win over Rivera (honorable mention of domianting Shamrock @ 205) and complete defeat of Tanner and the manor in which he did it gives him my top 185 spot...

Also i think Joe Dorks recent wins as well pushes him close to the top half of the 5-10 guys.

Rivera gave the current UFC MW Champ his toughest fight in the octagon. He almost had Franklin beat at one point and it can be argued that he was winning the fight before the armbar. That fight on top of his win over Loiseau earned him that ranking in my opinion. Baroni was very impressive in his win over Chonan, but he also lost to Sell this year and that loss was his fourth in a row.

As for Silva, I have had the good fortune of seeing his fights at Cage Rage and he has definitely dazzled. He dominated both Murray and Rivera, toying with the latter. That is the same Rivera that gave Franklin his toughest fight in the octagon. Not to mention his other wins over Horn and Newton. Sure he has a recent loss to Chonan, but those very impressive list of wins overshadows that loss in my eyes. Beating Rivera, Murray and Horn is more impressive than beating Rivera, Stout and Tanner in my opinion.

I would have had Doerkson higher if not for his recent loss to Riggs.

[my sex is artsy]

You need to move this to the Fantasy Forum.

SO the MSIA ranking criteria has nothing to do with who the best fighters are only what they have done lately?

Plus of the guys you mentioned the only one to get a win over a top 15 guy is Terrell. And that was 1 punch on Linland. Terrell proved against Tanner he didn't have the balls to be a top guy at 185 yet.

Its about the best fighters, but the fighters must verify through competition that they are indeed the best fighters.

Beating Ryuta Sakurai doesn't affirm that you're still the man after three years. Hendo and him are also basically 185'ers, and Hendo punched him out. Busta has done nothing to say to me he's an elite 185'er. Not anymore, anyway. If in the near future he beats someone like Baroni, or something, sure. But not now.

[my sex is artsy]

Plus of the guys you mentioned the only one to get a win over a top 15 guy is Terrell. And that was 1 punch on Linland. Terrell proved against Tanner he didn't have the balls to be a top guy at 185 yet.

Acacio just beat Misaki, who was a Top 15'er. Niko just beat Suda, a borderline Top 15'er. Also, Terrell didn't beat Lindland with one punch. He beat him with one punch, and a rapid fire succession of critical beatdown elbows.

[H]

Lindland was out on that punch, reguardless of what happened afterwards. he got dropped like a bad habit.

[my sex is artsy]

Lindland was out on that punch, reguardless of what happened afterwards. he got dropped like a bad habit.

He still at least semi conscious. He was clinching on to Terrell on the ground.

[H]

semi concious doesnt count for shit when there is no 10 count.

[my sex is artsy]

semi concious doesnt count for shit when there is no 10 count.

It does if you have enough wherewithal to clinch and hold on to the guy until you're more lucid and can better defend yourself.

[H]

i kind of consider that recovery, but ok. some people in boxing take a fall and are semi concious but cant make it up or are still wobbly. in mma its worse off cuz someone can jump on your ass and pummel unless you have good recovery.

[The Punk]

You can call the punch that Terrell threw to drop Lindland "lucky" all you want, the fact of the matter is, he threw that punch with the intent to put Lindland on his ass and he did. Thankfully, posters here have more sense than to call that a "lucky punch" like many at Sherdog have. Anyways, call it what you want because the fact remains that Terrell succeeded where Miletich, Baroni, Salaverry, Fryklund, Weir and Lutter all failed. "Lucky punch" or not.

[H]

no doubt Punk. its like in football when somebody bitches that a team only won by 1 point. a win is a win fucker.

[adamn]

IMO he hasn't beat big enough names to be a top 10. A win of Minowa and Chonnan is no easy feat, but what's he in his last 4 fights? 2-2.

[H]

A win of Minowa and Chonnan is no easy feat, but what's he in his last 4 fights? 2-2.

pwn3d. he is 3-1 in his last 4 fights.

[my sex is artsy]

IMO he hasn't beat big enough names to be a top 10. A win of Minowa and Chonnan is no easy feat, but what's he in his last 4 fights? 2-2.

Exactly. So he's creepin' on a come up. One more nice win, he'll be at the very bottom.

[BigJ383]

Punk the fact you dont have lee murray in there i agree
also jorge to me shouldnt be 10 right now where as baroni's recent push and big wins deserve spot 10.

Also Silva MAYBE 4 or 5 in my ranking, He hasn't dazzled in his last year of fights and imo his biggest win was vs Jeremy Horn who had an injured groin for the fight.

Franklin's win over Rivera (honorable mention of domianting Shamrock @ 205) and complete defeat of Tanner and the manor in which he did it gives him my top 185 spot...

Also i think Joe Dorks recent wins as well pushes him close to the top half of the 5-10 guys.
I don't think Baroni deserves a top 10 ranking yet way to many good MWs out there. But I agree Silva will only bee about 5 in the rankings. The only reason he got inflated to being #1 in the first place is because Terrell KOed Lindland. But Doerkson I also can't push him high on the top 10 considering he lost not to long ago to Riggs. Rich Franklin with out a doubt IMO is #1 you can't totally ignore his LHW accomplishmants.

1. Rich Franklin
2. Jeremy Horn
3. Evan Tanner
4. Matt Lindland
5. Anderson Silva
6. Ivan Salaverry
7. David Terrell
8. David Loiseau
9. Falaniko Vitale
10. Joey Villasenor

Alot of arguing can be done over Villasenor but he has fought decent competiton and hasn't lost in his last 12. Riggs and Doerkson could easliy take that spot as well.

[The Punk]

I still don't see why so many insist that Franklin must be ranked as the #1 MW in the world. Even if you include his accomplishments at MW as well as LHW, I don't see why he should be ranked there. So he dominated Tanner. How is that any more impressive than Silva beating Horn? So he beat Stout. How is that any more impressive than Silva dominating Murray? So he squeaked out a win over Rivera. How is that any more impressive than Silva toying with Rivera? Sure, Silva got beat by Chonan, but if you?re going to include Franklin's accomplishments at LHW, don?t forget to mention how he got wrecked by Lyoto...

[elbowsmash]

cause franklin is the UFC MW Div champ, and thats the deepest MW div in mma..
ur arguments valid but you can make that comparison against wandy too or any other champ save fedor

baroni deserves to be in the top ten, he wrecked two aces of pride, one who was rated a top 5 MW by many (overrated or not)
MMA rankings are about now, and baroni is one of prides top 185er's now so he deserves to be in there.
my guess is that he wont be matched up against anybody else before the 185 gp

but i'd like to see him go against kang, silva or sak...
i think he'd beat both kang and sak, but i think silva would make baroni look like an amateur.
lee murray or anyone else in UFC's mw div would be a good matchup against baroni too, and i'd think most would beat him
good matchups i most want to see is, baroni vs doerksen, cote, riggs... i think baroni would beat cote, but not riggs and definately not doerksen

i'd love to see doerksen methodically take baroni apart on the ground

[Mad Processor]

Wasn't it Bas Rutten who said that there are no lucky punches? If you throw a punch it is intended to hit someone. How well you hit, where you hit etc can all be called "luck", so I agree with Bas, there ARE no lucky punches. Does it mean that he's a much better fighter? No, off course not, people have on and off days, I still say Lindland's a better fighter and would take him in a rematch. And by "take him", I mean lay on top of him for 15 minutes.

I'm also thrilled to see not a single one has had Murray in the top 10 spot, on the dawg I bet half would have him there.

[The Punk]

cause franklin is the UFC MW Div champ, and thats the deepest MW div in mma..

Belts should not factor into rankings. Mir is a perfect example why. He got a shot at the UFC HW Belt after beating Tank and Sims, and beat Sylvia to claim the belt. Should we rank Mir over Nog and Mirko just because he holds a belt? No, because Nog and Mirko have faced and beat tougher competition, despite the fact they don't hold a belt at this time.

The same can be said for Franklin. The UFC MW division is deep, but Franklin has only beat 2 fighters from that deep division and 3 fighters overall. I still don't see why so many insist that Franklin must be ranked as the #1 MW in the world. Even if he holds the UFC MW Belt, which by the way, Silva holds the Cage Rage MW Belt.

I guess in the end it all comes down to which of the following you find more impressive...

Franklin squeaking out a win over Rivera, beating Stout and dominating Tanner.

Or...

Silva beating Horn, dominating Murray and toying with Rivera.

I find the latter more impressive, despite the loss to Chonan in between. Especially if you compare their performances against a common opponent in Rivera.

[H]

Murray doesnt belong anywhere near a top 10 list at the moment. he looked like shit against Silva anyway.

[The Punk]

Murray doesnt belong anywhere near a top 10 list at the moment. he looked like shit against Silva anyway.

Silva made Murray look like shit just like he made Rivera look like shit. Murray may not belong in the top ten, but he's still a top fighter and Silva made him look like he isn't.

[my sex is artsy]

I guess in the end it all comes down to which of the following you find more impressive...

Franklin squeaking out a win over Rivera, beating Stout and dominating Tanner.

Or...

Silva beating Horn, dominating Murray and toying with Rivera.

I find the latter more impressive, despite the loss to Chonan in between. Especially if you compare their performances against a common opponent in Rivera.

No...it all comes down to Franklin's only loss ever being to a top notch striker of thus far unquantified skill, and otherwise having 18 or 19 wins...while Anderson been submitted by Daijyu Takase, and Ryo Chonan.

[Rauger]

I hope we get to see dan henderson vs. baroni

[The Punk]

No...it all comes down to Franklin's only loss ever being to a top notch striker of thus far unquantified skill, and otherwise having 18 or 19 wins...while Anderson been submitted by Daijyu Takase, and Ryo Chonan.

We're ranking Franklin at 185 lbs and he only has 3 wins at that weight.

[dy-no-mite3000]

We're ranking Franklin at 185 lbs and he only has 3 wins at that weight.
But all 3 were quality opponents and he took out Tanner a guy who since moving to 185 almsot 3 years ago has been a beast like him or not.

[The Punk]

But all 3 were quality opponents and he took out Tanner a guy who since moving to 185 almsot 3 years ago has been a beast like him or not.

All 3 wins were against quality opponents, but Silva has beat equally strong opponents in more impressive fashion in my opinion. I think we just all have to agree to disagree. I can see why some would rank Franklin as the #1 MW in the world, but I personally think Silva is more deserving of that ranking. Either way, I don't think the MW division has a clear cut #1 fighter like the HW division does. If Franklin can get one more quality win at this weight under his belt, like the winner of Salaverry vs Marquardt, then I'll rank him as the #1 MW in the world. Assuming Silva hasn't done the same by that time.

[dy-no-mite3000]

All 3 wins were against quality opponents, but Silva has beat equally strong opponents in more impressive fashion in my opinion. I think we just all have to agree to disagree. I can see why some would rank Franklin as the #1 MW in the world, but I personally think Silva is more deserving of that ranking. Either way, I don't think the MW division has a clear cut #1 fighter like the HW division does. If Franklin can get one more quality win at this weight under his belt, like the winner of Salaverry vs Marquardt, then I'll rank him as the #1 MW in the world. Assuming Silva hasn't done the same by that time.
Silva losing to chonan lost a lot of his appeal in my eyes and made me question him even more. Therefore until he comes back with a solid W somewhere in the top 5 then he being ranked 1 tarnishes the whole division.

[my sex is artsy]

Silva losing to chonan lost a lot of his appeal in my eyes and made me question him even more. Therefore until he comes back with a solid W somewhere in the top 5 then he being ranked 1 tarnishes the whole division.

Am I the only person who still remembers him getting triangled by Takase? Fuck, it wasn't even that long ago.

[The Punk]

I remember his losses to Takase and Chonan, but it's hard to forget how he knocked out Newton, beat Horn, dominated Murray and toyed with Rivera. I find the last accomplishment especially impressive when you consider the difficulty Franklin had with Rivera.

[Johnny Toetags]

Rivera IS pretty inconsistent, though. Sometimes he'll be on, other times he'll be hum-drum. See his figth with Dave Loiseau. Dave destoryed him in the first round and then gassed due to issues with cutting weight and other things. Anyways, point is even with a weak-as-a-child Loiseau facing him, Rivera looked like shit.

[Sir Gibbs]

I remember his losses to Takase and Chonan, but it's hard to forget how he knocked out Newton, beat Horn, dominated Murray and toyed with Rivera. I find the last accomplishment especially impressive when you consider the difficulty Franklin had with Rivera.

To much is made of Franklin and Rivera. It was the first time Rich had cut to 185 and he clearly struggled doing it. I haven't watched it in a while but remeber Rivera only dazzing Franklin once, but i felt Rich was in control of the majority of the fight, especially later on in the fight and when it went to the ground.

[my sex is artsy]

I remember his losses to Takase and Chonan, but it's hard to forget how he knocked out Newton, beat Horn, dominated Murray and toyed with Rivera. I find the last accomplishment especially impressive when you consider the difficulty Franklin had with Rivera.

Dominating Murray is the only one that I really think is super impressive. Rivera is really bipolar, on/off depending on the day...Horn is Horn, and never beats elite guys like Silva...and no offense, cause I like him, but Newton has sucked shit since his second fight with Hughes. Anderson Silva is good, and if he comes in and beat an elite guy, I'll maybe say he's number 1. But till then, Ace is tops on my list.

[Johnny Toetags]

To much is made of Franklin and Rivera. It was the first time Rich had cut to 185 and he clearly struggled doing it. I haven't watched it in a while but remeber Rivera only dazzing Franklin once, but i felt Rich was in control of the majority of the fight, especially later on in the fight and when it went to the ground.


This is true, Rich was in control 90% of that fight and ended it when he realized it was going to the judges.

[natecrime]

Does anyone know who Silva is planning on fighting next out of interest?

[The Punk]

Does anyone know who Silva is planning on fighting next out of interest?

I think Cage Rage is planning on having Stout face Murray with the winner facing Silva for the Cage Rage MW Belt. I hope Silva is in the Pride WW GP come September.

[natecrime]

I think Cage Rage is planning on having Stout face Murray with the winner facing Silva for the Cage Rage MW Belt. I hope Silva is in the Pride WW GP come September.

Yea, I think he more than likely will be, I doubt Pride will pass up on the oppurtunity to have one of the top 3 ww in the world and i'm sure Silva will be more than happy to participate. It's really cool to see Silva fighting in Cage Rage as he obviously has the ability to fight in the big big shows, if Murray wins then facing him again could be a dangerous fight as Murray is by no means a push over whether his skills are valued or not he has a mean left hand.