Worst champions ever

[elgigante]

Who are some champs that just made you scratch your head as to how in the hell they got a title? Ill start

Bruce Seldon-Former WBA Heavyweight champ- Not a good boxer, had steroid problems and just look totally inept against Mike Tyson in his title bout against him.

[elgigante]

John Ruiz- If he didnt fight in such a faded era of heavys i think he would have been dethroned long ago. Lets face it, the guy is a dirty, boring fighter. If he had fought a Prime Holyfield he would never have even sniffed the belt and some questionable judging has helped him along his way. Also if Golota had two brain cells left he would have been able to finish him in their bout, which i think he got robbed in hardcore

[Mold with a Generous Heart]

I won't dissect your Ruiz comments.

Frank Bruno. You ever play his game? Me neither.

[elgigante]

I won't dissect your Ruiz comments.

Frank Bruno. You ever play his game? Me neither.


Bruno. Ill best remeber him for his freeze job in the tyson bouts. Great guy outside of the ring though

[elgigante]

Sven Ottke- Former IBF 168lb champion. Given many hometown decisions throughout his career in Germany. His fighting style in a word. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz

[Mad Processor]

I have to say Hashim Rahman here.. I couldn't close my mouth for a week after that fight, I was up until early in the morning to watch Lewis knock the shit out of him, and he's KO'ed... Rahman didn't do jack as a champion either, stalling the rematch and when finally giving it he was beaten .. severly.

[the chairman211]

a tie between buster douglas and kelly clarkson

[too short]

Who are some champs that just made you scratch your head as to how in the hell they got a title? Ill start

Bruce Seldon-Former WBA Heavyweight champ- Not a good boxer, had steroid problems and just look totally inept against Mike Tyson in his title bout against him.Micheal Moore and buster dougless IMO

[too short]

and in other weight classes- hector camcho jr. sucked and I hate to say it because he had a big heart vinny paz,how did these guys get titles

[elgigante]

and in other weight classes- hector camcho jr. sucked and I hate to say it because he had a big heart vinny paz,how did these guys get titles


Paz beat a pretty good fighter in Gibert Dele to get his 154 lb belt. I cant knock him at all. As for Camacho Junior, i dont know if he held any major belt but he definetly was a punk bitch

[too short]

Paz beat a pretty good fighter in Gibert Dele to get his 154 lb belt. I cant knock him at all. As for Camacho Junior, i dont know if he held any major belt but he definetly was a punk bitchI have alot of respect for paz because of his heart but from a boxing standpoint he wasent a skilled fighter but I respect the hell of him but he had to make up for not having talent with tremendous heart and btw his title win with dele was a great win but he lost alot and won a very lucky decition vs haugen and I love vinny paz but he wasent A class fighter he just had to many flaws and had short title reins but I love watching paz fight

[Shaolin Bushido]

Vinnie Pazienza was a tough fighter who came to win every night. I don't recall him being anything resembling a no talent fighter and only after his neck injury and his return at a much higher weight did I notice anything calculating at all in his opponent selection.

I don't think he should be mentioned in a thread like this with Hector Jr. at all.

[BADrew]

Sorry to be a dick but most of you guys are WAY off base. You're talking about guys the general oublic has heard of. You wouldn't have heard of them if they weren't decent. I'll give a longer post 2morrow

[DrOctagon]

Oliver McCall *cries*
Willie Jorrin -shouldn't have has the title, Michael Brodie beat him convincingly but was robbed.
Pinklon Thomas - Shit fighter, shit era.
Barry Jones - Decent boxer not world class
Sven Ottke - ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz
Markus Beyer - Protected, talentless division apart from a select few.

Oh yeah & James Buster Douglas - One minute wonder.

[too short]

Vinnie Pazienza was a tough fighter who came to win every night. I don't recall him being anything resembling a no talent fighter and only after his neck injury and his return at a much higher weight did I notice anything calculating at all in his opponent selection.

I don't think he should be mentioned in a thread like this with Hector Jr. at all.shaolin your right he came to win every night every night but the fact is he had minimal talent inless you call taking a beating all the time talent,I'm only 20 years old but I do my research, paz isint the worst champ ever but their were more skilled guys that deserved a belt in his era,you dont have to be a boxing guru to know paz wasent all that good,but I give credit for being teh tough and thats all,he wasent a skilled fighter by any means he won fights on pure guts and as for camacho jr. his dad is more a punk than he is,camacho jr. won a lame title early in his career and his dads shadow really fucked up his career,its sad jr had some talent

[Shaolin Bushido]

shaolin your right he came to win every night every night but the fact is he had minimal talent inless you call taking a beating all the time talent,I'm only 20 years old but I do my research, paz isint the worst champ ever but their were more skilled guys that deserved a belt in his era,you dont have to be a boxing guru to know paz wasent all that good,but I give credit for being teh tough and thats all,he wasent a skilled fighter by any means he won fights on pure guts and as for camacho jr. his dad is more a punk than he is,camacho jr. won a lame title early in his career and his dads shadow really fucked up his career,its sad jr had some talentIf there were more deserving fighters why didn't they win it instead of him? Who was more deserving or skillful that didn't win a championship, though that is purely subjective? Vinnie Pazienza was a skilled boxer and had all of the intangibles anyone could ever want in a fighter. I'm not disputing you're knowledgeable of boxing but I saw him fight many times. Okay, do you consider Ricky Hatton deserving or even Miguel Cotto? Those guys are only just fighting the type of opposition that Paz met in his career and very few guys can maintain the type of performances against the TOP guys that they routinely do against the cannon fodder they destroy on the way up.

Hector Sr. was a champion and one of the fastest afoot or with his hands ... EVER! Lots of guys have disdain for him due to his personality or style but he PROVED himself in the ring. He frustrated and beat many of the best in his era and his son ... he quit the first time he experienced adversity against an over the hill Jesse James Leija.

[too short]

If there were more deserving fighters why didn't they win it instead of him? Who was more deserving or skillful that didn't win a championship, though that is purely subjective? Vinnie Pazienza was a skilled boxer and had all of the intangibles anyone could ever want in a fighter. I'm not disputing you're knowledgeable of boxing but I saw him fight many times. Okay, do you consider Ricky Hatton deserving or even Miguel Cotto? Those guys are only just fighting the type of opposition that Paz met in his career and very few guys can maintain the type of performances against the TOP guys that they routinely do against the cannon fodder they destroy on the way up.

Hector Sr. was a champion and one of the fastest afoot or with his hands ... EVER! Lots of guys have disdain for him due to his personality or style but he PROVED himself in the ring. He frustrated and beat many of the best in his era and his son ... he quit the first time he experienced adversity against an over the hill Jesse James Leija.Vinny had decent power and cement head and great ring smarts but other than that he lacked in speed and boxing ability, what I mean by that is always got into wars even after his car wreck.In short I will always remeber him for taking on bigger fighters and fighting with rockey like heart and never backed down,I like your posts bushido and respect your opintion and you have a great grasp on boxing but on the subject,with all due respect I would not let paz into the boxing hall of fame,his abc title wins with dele and haugen dont do enough,I think everybody would agree Paz was a very good fighter but not a great fighter btw are you itailian?

[Shaolin Bushido]

Vinny had decent power and cement head and great ring smarts but other than that he lacked in speed and boxing ability, what I mean by that is always got into wars even after his car wreck.In short I will always remeber him for taking on bigger fighters and fighting with rockey like heart and never backed down,I like your posts bushido and respect your opintion and you have a great grasp on boxing but on the subject,with all due respect I would not let paz into the boxing hall of fame,his abc title wins with dele and haugen dont do enough,I think everybody would agree Paz was a very good fighter but not a great fighter btw are you itailian?Nah, Black as tar, bro. I've read your posts and respect your views on boxing. I'm sure we'll end up agreeing more often than not.

Since I'm rarely wrong.(just kiddin)

[too short]

wow your black thats rare thing on sherdog,they always post racist shit their

[XiAoYuFOREVER]

buster dougless.

[elgigante]

Since I'm rarely wrong.(just kiddin)

your too humble sometimes. You, BADrew and Necro are people i am proud to have learned alot from at the dog. Tam too of course but he has a big ego already :)

[CROKICK]

your too humble sometimes. You, BADrew and Necro are people i am proud to have learned alot from at the dog. Tam too of course but he has a big ego already :)
No, not Tam. He doesnt have a big ego :rolleyes:

[Shaolin Bushido]

your too humble sometimes. You, BADrew and Necro are people i am proud to have learned alot from at the dog. Tam too of course but he has a big ego already :)Preciate that man. Has anyone tied you for the amount of prediction contest victories yet? I just write down the crap that occurs to me; fortunately it's based on all you guys evaluations and facts.

I lie alot too. That helps.

[Shaolin Bushido]

No, not Tam. He doesnt have a big ego :rolleyes:Hahahaha, well-earned I hate to admit.

[elgigante]

Preciate that man. Has anyone tied you for the amount of prediction contest victories yet? I just write down the crap that occurs to me; fortunately it's based on all you guys evaluations and facts.

I lie alot too. That helps.


Absolut is closest with 2. But hey hooray for Krikit as he finally broke the bridesmaid streak

[Shaolin Bushido]

Absolut is closest with 2. But hey hooray for Krikit as he finally broke the bridesmaid streakDAMMMMN! Can't believe it. Not that he wasn't always top notch but ... it just ain't right. He messed up his status as the boxing contest's version of the bosox. Oh well, if the sox can do it .....

Gotta congratulate him when I see him next.

[BADrew]

OK lets see about some names being mentioned here:

John Ruiz - People are confusing bad with boring. Not many recent heavyweight titlists have beaten so many top 10 guys. We could always include everyoe's favorite honky VK who has never beaten a legit top 10 guy. The only ones that came close where a fat former Ruiz victim and a fat retired golfer.

Bruce Seldon - ONe of the weakest champs ever yes, but someone said he wasn't skilled. He was extremely skilled, he just had zero chin.

Sven Ottke - Anothe rcase of people mistaking overrated for boring. He beat alot of pretty decent guys and was very active. He has wins over Tate, Brewer, Mundine, Johnson, and Branco. Plus a ton of other defenses and non-title fights.

[elgigante]

OK lets see about some names being mentioned here:

John Ruiz - People are confusing bad with boring. Not many recent heavyweight titlists have beaten so many top 10 guys. We could always include everyoe's favorite honky VK who has never beaten a legit top 10 guy. The only ones that came close where a fat former Ruiz victim and a fat retired golfer.

Bruce Seldon - ONe of the weakest champs ever yes, but someone said he wasn't skilled. He was extremely skilled, he just had zero chin.

Sven Ottke - Anothe rcase of people mistaking overrated for boring. He beat alot of pretty decent guys and was very active. He has wins over Tate, Brewer, Mundine, Johnson, and Branco. Plus a ton of other defenses and non-title fights.

Seldon was skilled enough to beat a washed up Tony Tubbs and Tony Tucker. I never saw any skill from him that made him stand out. He lost every time he tried to step up to an A level name. Hence saying he was not a good championship level boxer.


And you cant tell me Ottke didnt get the benefit of the doubt from his hometown judges at least a few times in title defenses

[elgigante]

And I just hate Ruiz so im not gonna get into an argument there cause ill use Necro like logic

[BADrew]

Tons of guys have gotten a couple gifts. he still defeated plenty of good guys cleanly and cemented himself as the 2nd best supemiddle ever after Jones. Seldon had really good skills and a world class jab. He actually lost to Tubbs (but so did Riddick Bowe), McCall, Bowe, and Tyson. The last 3 had great chins and very good power, not a good match for Seldon. Bruce wasn't a great fighter by any means and he was a shitty champ. But he had championship level skills. He just had little heart and was very chinny.

[elgigante]

Ok whats your thoughts on Henry Maske then? Im not too high on him

[BADrew]

Ok whats your thoughts on Henry Maske then? Im not too high on him

Boooooring but not all that ineffective. Beat a good champ and had a few good wins. lost to good champ

[Solaris]

Heavyweights - Frans Botha. This guy was on steriods when he won the title - but it still counted. Of course, it was stripped off him later, but technically he had it and was officially a world champion.

[Solaris]

Henry Maske fought Zeljko Mavrovic in a grudge match, and mavrovic really destroyed him. later they were friends.

[BADrew]

Heavyweights - Frans Botha. This guy was on steriods when he won the title - but it still counted. Of course, it was stripped off him later, but technically he had it and was officially a world champion.

eh, thats one of those "if a tree falls in the woods and no one was ther did it make a noise" arguments. Botha had his match with Schultz declared a NC. The WBA sort of annulled him as champ, saying that no one won the title in that match. I thought Schultz should have gotten the nod anyway

[elgigante]

Henry Maske fought Zeljko Mavrovic in a grudge match, and mavrovic really destroyed him. later they were friends.

when did this fight happen? Zelko was a heavy his whole career and Henry was a light heavy. And i see no such fight on boxrec

[Johnny Toetags]

Henry Maske fought Zeljko Mavrovic in a grudge match, and mavrovic really destroyed him. later they were friends.

Were they now...?


Hmmm.

[BADrew]

Wanna talk about bad champs, talk about Ed Hopson, Jake Rodriguez, Hugo Corro, Shinji Takehara, Vincent Pettway, Uriah Grant, and Steve Little.

[Solaris]

when did this fight happen? Zelko was a heavy his whole career and Henry was a light heavy. And i see no such fight on boxrec

it wasn't an official match. maske challenged Zeljko (who is croatian but lived in Germany and the germans loved him) to an exhibition match.. it wasn't official.. Zeljko was too big and strong and really hurt Maske.

[Solaris]

eh, thats one of those "if a tree falls in the woods and no one was ther did it make a noise" arguments. Botha had his match with Schultz declared a NC. The WBA sort of annulled him as champ, saying that no one won the title in that match. I thought Schultz should have gotten the nod anyway

i also thought Schulz should have won, but we are discussing the worst champions, so i thought i'd bring up botha (who was terrible - he shouldn't have even beaten Schulz).

[Sharkey]

I'm kinda suprised that 'Da' Preem' hasn't been mentioned yet, as he's usually one of the first names mentioned when the subject comes up....

Primo Carnera, Marvin Hart, and Leon Spinks, would be the three guys who first come to mind when I think of the "worst" heavyweight champions in history (not including those bogus alphabet titlists).

[elgigante]

Shark you really think Spinks was shitty? Im not too up on him besides when he fought Ali.

[Sharkey]

Shark you really think Spinks was shitty? Im not too up on him besides when he fought Ali.

I wouldn't exactly call Spinks a "shitty" fighter, EG, as he was one of only about 40 fighters to ever win the linear heavyweight championship. That in itself is worthy of some pretty big respect if you ask me. But yeah, I do consider him one of the lesser champions in that very select and most prestigious group....

'Neon' Leon was a pretty decent fighter, who was definately fun to watch with that all-out aggressive style of his. But compared to alot of other heavyweight champions, he lacked the talent to be measured against them. From what I remember, Spinks only had a couple of big nights during his career....Obviously when he won the title from Ali, who underestimated an inexperienced "soft touch" before a big money fourth fight with Norton. And then Spinks had a very big win over the then WBC number one contender, Bernardo Mercado (Spinks stopped the heavy favourite in nine), which earned Spinks a shot at Larry Holmes....

But beyond those two fights, and besides a couple of wins/draws against some "name" opponents? Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't recall him having much success....Ali got himself in pretty decent shape for the rematch (both physically and mentally), boxed well and handily won the title back from Spinks. In that WBA tournament back then, Gerrie Coetzee's bionic right hand was waaaay too much for Spinks, and that fight was over not too long after it started with Spinks visiting the canvas a few times in less than a round of action. And after ticking Larry Holmes off during the pre-fight instructions, Spinks was put away in three and without too much trouble....And from then Spinks was supposed to be the saviour of the cruiserweight division, but that didn't work out too well, as he didn't offer either DeLeon or Qawi much of a test....The rest of his career? Probably not worth mentioning, as there's some pretty fucking embarassing losses on his record and nothing to talk about as far as success goes....

Spinks was extremely popular during the late 70's/early 80's, and if he didn't go down the path he did (a partying NUT, who was bigtime into the drug scene for the longest time), he could've been remembered for slightly more than just the win over the old and unmotivated Ali, and to a lesser extent, the win over the overated Mercado. Or maybe he could've been remembered by me as more than one of the least accomplished/talented heavyweight champions in history.

[Shaolin Bushido]

wow your black thats rare thing on sherdog,they always post racist shit theirBut not over here. That's why I love it so. :rolleyes:

[BADrew]

Oh, I forgot to mention Hugo Corro. The worst undisputed middleweight champ ever. Rodrigo Valdes automatically loses credit from me for losing to him.

[CROKICK]

I wouldn't exactly call Spinks a "shitty" fighter, EG, as he was one of only about 40 fighters to ever win the linear heavyweight championship. That in itself is worthy of some pretty big respect if you ask me. But yeah, I do consider him one of the lesser champions in that very select and most prestigious group....

'Neon' Leon was a pretty decent fighter, who was definately fun to watch with that all-out aggressive style of his. But compared to alot of other heavyweight champions, he lacked the talent to be measured against them. From what I remember, Spinks only had a couple of big nights during his career....Obviously when he won the title from Ali, who underestimated an inexperienced "soft touch" before a big money fourth fight with Norton. And then Spinks had a very big win over the then WBC number one contender, Bernardo Mercado (Spinks stopped the heavy favourite in nine), which earned Spinks a shot at Larry Holmes....

But beyond those two fights, and besides a couple of wins/draws against some "name" opponents? Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't recall him having much success....Ali got himself in pretty decent shape for the rematch (both physically and mentally), boxed well and handily won the title back from Spinks. In that WBA tournament back then, Gerrie Coetzee's bionic right hand was waaaay too much for Spinks, and that fight was over not too long after it started with Spinks visiting the canvas a few times in less than a round of action. And after ticking Larry Holmes off during the pre-fight instructions, Spinks was put away in three and without too much trouble....And from then Spinks was supposed to be the saviour of the cruiserweight division, but that didn't work out too well, as he didn't offer either DeLeon or Qawi much of a test....The rest of his career? Probably not worth mentioning, as there's some pretty fucking embarassing losses on his record and nothing to talk about as far as success goes....

Spinks was extremely popular during the late 70's/early 80's, and if he didn't go down the path he did (a partying NUT, who was bigtime into the drug scene for the longest time), he could've been remembered for slightly more than just the win over the old and unmotivated Ali, and to a lesser extent, the win over the overated Mercado. Or maybe he could've been remembered by me as more than one of the least accomplished/talented heavyweight champions in history.

Hey Sharks, nice to see you bud. :)

[Sharkey]

Hey Sharks, nice to see you bud. :)

Hey buddy!!! :)

Shit, with you, Drew, EG, Dingo, Nick, O-Shiek and....Umm, I forgetting somebody worth mentioning, I think. But yeah, with all you cool fuckers posting here this site's going to be fuckin' great!!!

[Tauvington]

Well...maybe not quite the worst champ ever, but certainly towards the bottom of the ladder would be William Guthrie. He wins a vacant title against a push-over opponent, then gets absolutely SMASHED unconcious by one punch in his first defense against Reg.

I admire Guthrie more for the way he battled Don King in court than for his fighting done in the ring.

[BADrew]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Guthrie. He was actually a highly touted prospect until Johnson smashed him. Reggie was actually an underrated fighter though. Not many people give him too much credit b/c he often wound up on the short end of the stick in top fights but always gave an excellent account of himself. Roy Jones (who wrecked him) is the exception.

[Tauvington]

Yeah, a lot of writers in the boxing media were expecting Guthrie (an ex-con) to have a really bright future ahead of him. Shit, some people were even going so far as to say that Jones wanted to avoid him.

Reggie was no doubt underrated, especially considering that his title wins before the Guthrie KO had all been down at 160 pounds. As outstanding as Johnson was, though, he wasn't really known as a one-shot type of killer at middleweight. That image of him shattering light-heavyweight champion Guthrie's skull with a single punch...well, I think it really exposed William.

[Shaolin Bushido]

Leon was definitely one of the worst titleists ever. If he didn't come along at a time when Ali's skills were basically gone but still popular and holding the title hostage he never would've smelled it let alone won it. His olympic champion status was just enough for him to be marketable and his 7(?) wins was just low enough for Ali to somehow think he'd be easy game.

I met a guy a year or so ago who trained with Leon, in Houston, I believe and he said he could bang even though he's not known for it. He also confirmed that he was one of the worst guys as far as preparing for a fight; poor dedication and basically showed up and started punching til his conditioning, lack of following or knowing the gameplan and failure to recognize his opportunities in the ring manifested themselves.

I'll stop short of sayin he was a bum but ....

[Shaolin Bushido]

What happened to Solaris, there?