$50 into $1,000?

[goat meal]

This is in no way thread worthy and in fact probably belongs in my neglected blog but figured what the hell. A few weeks ago the poker bug bit me again. I quit last year after about 15,000 hands. I was up like $250 playing .05/.10 no limit (from here on out known as 10NL). Every year the bug bites, I grind, lose interest, then cash out all within the span of 6 or 8 weeks.

This time I have a goal to help with my stick-to-it-iveness: turn $50 into a $1,000. I'm not especially talented and don't have a lot of time to grind (2,000 hands a week, if that) but I'm hoping I can ride a nice wave of positive variance. Once I hit a $1,000 who knows what I'll do. Maybe put it all on black and see what happens.

I deposited $50 on May 22nd. I got a $15 bonus (which I have already cleared) on top of $11 which has been in there the last year.

Rants, graphs, strategy, tilting, cursing, etc to come shortly.

[Cosmetics]

Who are you?

[goat meal]

Originally Posted by Cosmetics

Who are you?

Just some guy.

Anyway, I didn't play yesterday. In the last week and a half I've played nearly 4k hands which is a lot for me. I'm about a quarter of the hands to where I quit last year and I've been playing/running well so I decided it'd be better long term if I took yesterday off and enjoyed the good weather. This weekend I plan on grinding 1k-2k hands.

You'll notice that I won't set intermediate monetary goals. In other words you'll never see me post "I plan on making $60 this weekend and then $35 next weekend". The only thing I'll ever really have control over is how well I play and the number of hands I play. That's it.

Current bankroll is $116 and some change. I'm still under-rolled for 10NL but really can't bring myself to play 2NL. The only time I'll drop down is if I go on a massive downswing.

I'll post more tonight.

[H]

Originally Posted by Cosmetics

Who are you?

goat meal. DUH.

[goat meal]

I only played about 800 hands this weekend. I've been very busy with the family and searching for new jobs.

Not sure if I mentioned this yet or not and I'm too lazy to scroll up. I cleared the Absolute bonus which wasn't hard at all. I'm either going to Pokerstars to clear a reload bonus or starting an account somewhere else. I'm pretty sure I have rakeback at Pokerstars, but if I don't I won't play there.

Bankroll: $115.05
Hands: 4,326

[Gutsy]

But how much did you lose?

[goat meal]

Originally Posted by Gutsy

But how much did you lose?

A fellow 2p2'er I see.

After my last post I played some more because I'm a degen and tend to like ending sessions in the black. I lost two buy-ins. I reviewed my session in PT and didn't find any badly misplayed hands. That's not to say I played perfectly, because I didn't. I lost about a buy-in from being outflopped and surrendering on the flop or turn about a dozen different times. Oh well, the fish are allowed to make hands too.

One hand I got it all in on the flop with AA vs. 87 of hearts when the villain flopped an OESD and flush draw. He improved on the river. It was the spot I had been waiting for against the particular villain, but he just hit the flop really hard. I'm getting three streets of value any other time (villain was 50/6 for those of you that know what that means).

I may have a mini-session today after BJJ.

Bankroll: $93 (give or take a few cents)
Hands: ~4,400

[goat meal]

I've had a few sessions between my last post and now. I booked a small win on Monday which really did more for my confidence than my bankroll. Since starting back it seems I'm either splitting or losing all-in pots when I'm a significant favorite. It's all part of the game, but one hopes negative variance doesn't kick in until much later, not at the beginning of building a roll.

Yesterday I played over 300 hands. I played really good. I'm making an outright profit by being more aggressive preflop. Squeezing steals and 3betting the regs light preflop has added quite a bit to my WR, imo. Unfortunately my good session went to shit when I got it all in on the flop with AA and was insta-called by JJ (we both had overpairs). He spiked a J on the river.

I battled back to only being down 1/5 of a buy-in. It's technically not a win, but it's a small moral victory.

Bankroll: ~$98
Hands: ~5,300

[goat meal]

Oh, yeah. I should also mention I'm 4-5 tabling. On one hand I'm getting in a lot more volume than usual and on the other I've got about half my bankroll in play which isn't good bankroll management.

[goat meal]

Weeeee, down another buy-in. Grinded about 400 hands, misplayed a few pots, got coolered a few times. My EV graph says I'm running 2.5 buy-ins below expected value which is fun.

Oh yeah, I updated my blog today: http://kcbjj.wordpress.com

BR: ~$88
Hands: 5,705

The good news is I should be getting over a buy-in of rakeback on the 15th of this month. If I get my shit together and quit running bad then I could have about $120 to cash out. I'm staking out a few sites right now that have some pretty good deposit/reload bonuses. I just have to make sure they offer rakeback.

I want to get another session in before bed tonight. Will update tomorrow.

[goat meal]

Quick update: had a much better night session. Still running like garbage, but took down my fair share. J on the river did me in again in like a 90BB pot. Fuckers.

BR: ~$97
Hands: ~5,920

[goat meal]

Breaking even is the new winning. Where are these winning sessions some people speak of? Played a session, lost a few key pots that would have had me up a buy-in. Won enough small ones to keep me only down $1. That about sums up my entire week of poker, too. FML.

BR: ~$96
Hands: 6,117

[Gutsy]

Last month my win rate was 67bb/100 hands. this month it's only 16bb/100 hands. Hopefully my luck turns and I'll be running good again.

[goat meal]

Originally Posted by Gutsy

Last month my win rate was 67bb/100 hands. this month it's only 16bb/100 hands. Hopefully my luck turns and I'll be running good again.

lol. To hell with youuussee!!!

[Gutsy]

Yeah and best part is I wasn't joking .

Where are the updates? I hope you didn't go busto already .

It's not all fun and games (as I'm sure you're well aware). Some sessions can be pretty GD bad. like this one:



only up 241 bb in 141 hands. w/e at least I still have 10 winning sessions in a row. Results oriented 4tl.

[Doktor Sharpness]

20, and I didn't even need a calculator.

Next?

[goat meal]

Originally Posted by Gutsy

Yeah and best part is I wasn't joking .

Where are the updates? I hope you didn't go busto already .

It's not all fun and games (as I'm sure you're well aware). Some sessions can be pretty GD bad. like this one:



only up 241 bb in 141 hands. w/e at least I still have 10 winning sessions in a row. Results oriented 4tl.

Nopers, not busto yet. I actually just made a blog and update that now since it didn't appear anyone checked this thread out.

kcbjj.wordpress.com

My runbad for the most part continues. My br is a whopping $270 now. I'm running 1.7BB/100 but also 5.5 buy-ins under EV so what can you do.

[swope]

goat meal, best advice youre ever going to get:

stop playing online poker.

you have no edge.

youre not running bad, youre up against people who do this for a living and chinese botnets. there is no more dead money.

either concentrate on something everyone else sucks at, eg HUNL 2-7 lowball single draw or spend your time and money on FOREX trading or something with actual +EV/long term equity.

im not trying to be a cumstain here, this is real talk bro.

also the best reason for being on BBV these days is to watch people drop 4k worth of side bets trying to run $20 into whatever and failing before they finish their first day.

so rejoice that you dont have that cross to bare.

... do you..?

[goat meal]

Originally Posted by swope

goat meal, best advice youre ever going to get:

stop playing online poker.

you have no edge.

youre not running bad, youre up against people who do this for a living and chinese botnets. there is no more dead money.

either concentrate on something everyone else sucks at, eg HUNL 2-7 lowball single draw or spend your time and money on FOREX trading or something with actual +EV/long term equity.

im not trying to be a cumstain here, this is real talk bro.

also the best reason for being on BBV these days is to watch people drop 4k worth of side bets trying to run $20 into whatever and failing before they finish their first day.

so rejoice that you dont have that cross to bare.

... do you..?

I agree that online poker is harder than live and has gotten progressively worse since the illegalization of online gambling. I sort of disagree with your statement that I'm not running bad. With all due respect, you can't know that. I have a PT3 poker graph that shows I'm nearly 10 buy-ins below AIEV and that doesn't even count for the times I run KK into AA multiple times within 5k hands without the opposite happening in my favor or the sets under sets, etc, etc.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I've kind of lost interest in the grind as of late. It kind of dawned on me after running my full house into quads twice within 2k hands that hey, this is gambling. I better get used to this or move on with my life and while I'm not totally done I do want to take a break and focus on other things. It would have been nice to have at least break-even luck in the 50k hands I played but I find solace in still winning despite running into cold decks and getting sucked out on multiple times per session. I'll take my $250+ profit and buy a few gis or something else.

[Gutsy]

Playing poker online to make money = lol.

If you play, play for the challenge/escapism. Any money you make, use it to buy something stupid for yourself or family. Or better yet invest it.

Take a break, the bug will bite you again in a few months. Come back and win another 200 or w/e.

[swope]

Re running bad, youre 100% right of course, I didnt mean it in some categorically mathematic context.

I just mean that people tend to hemorrhage money due to variance and say "fuck am I running bad" like that somehow makes it all ok and the lost money isnt really legitimately lost and the time wasted was somehow wasted constructively.

(And by people I mean me.)

The reality is that something like 3% of people who play poker ever walk away from the tables up, and almost all of them do so simply because they won some huge tourney early on and either quit on the spot or parlayed that into a sponsorship deal. If youre not capable of running as good AND playing as good as Tom Dwan or st1ckm4n or Isldur, poker is going to be a pretty grim affair usually.

Seriously for the final word on all things poker, watch the documentary Poker Bustouts.

Guy is walking to the cage after taking down a big tourn with something like low six digits worth of chips under his arm.

Gets asked, "What are you going to do with the money?"

Says to the fellow, "Im gonna pay off my backer!"

Guy laughs and asks him, "Cool but what about the rest?"

Champ snarls, "THEY ARE JUST GONNA HAVE TO WAIT."

If I had to sum up the real poker lifestyle with one parable, its fucking well that one.

[goat meal]

Originally Posted by swope

Re running bad, youre 100% right of course, I didnt mean it in some categorically mathematic context.

I just mean that people tend to hemorrhage money due to variance and say "fuck am I running bad" like that somehow makes it all ok and the lost money isnt really legitimately lost and the time wasted was somehow wasted constructively.

(And by people I mean me.)

The reality is that something like 3% of people who play poker ever walk away from the tables up, and almost all of them do so simply because they won some huge tourney early on and either quit on the spot or parlayed that into a sponsorship deal. If youre not capable of running as good AND playing as good as Tom Dwan or st1ckm4n or Isldur, poker is going to be a pretty grim affair usually.

Seriously for the final word on all things poker, watch the documentary Poker Bustouts.

Guy is walking to the cage after taking down a big tourn with something like low six digits worth of chips under his arm.

Gets asked, "What are you going to do with the money?"

Says to the fellow, "Im gonna pay off my backer!"

Guy laughs and asks him, "Cool but what about the rest?"

Champ snarls, "THEY ARE JUST GONNA HAVE TO WAIT."

If I had to sum up the real poker lifestyle with one parable, its fucking well that one.

Haha, I think I've seen it or at least a lot of previews. I can't remember which.

If things weren't different I'd keep going. Right now work has me clocking in more hours, I do BJJ 3-4 times a week, and in January I'm starting school. Somethings going to have to give and it looks like it's going to be poker.

[swope]

bjj > poker and its the furthest thing from close, good choice imo.

if the payment systems somehow unfuck themselves and someone solves the energy, housing, and food crisis', ill see you at the tables tho.

[DeltaSigChi4]

So, what happened?

E

[Randjob]

Originally Posted by swope

goat meal, best advice youre ever going to get:

stop playing online poker.

you have no edge.

youre not running bad, youre up against people who do this for a living and chinese botnets. there is no more dead money.

either concentrate on something everyone else sucks at, eg HUNL 2-7 lowball single draw or spend your time and money on FOREX trading or something with actual +EV/long term equity.

im not trying to be a cumstain here, this is real talk bro.

also the best reason for being on BBV these days is to watch people drop 4k worth of side bets trying to run $20 into whatever and failing before they finish their first day.

so rejoice that you dont have that cross to bare.

... do you..?

Quoted for truth. Online poker is infuriating. If you're going to play poker, as a way to make money or just as a hobby, just play live. It's much more enjoyable

[kcb]

Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4

So, what happened?

E

Not 100% sure about this time (I've started and quit poker about a million times over) but I think I cashed out at around the $250 or $300 mark. I ran into an issue with competing hobbies. I could either re-start BJJ and get my blue belt (which I did) or continue down the bipolar path of poker where I'm only happy when I'm winning and super unhappy when I'm losing. Seemed like a no-brainer at the time to cash out and use the winning on something.

I use a program called Poker Tracker which keeps track of a plethora of stats both on your play and your opponents'. One reason is to determine leaks in your game to plug. Another is to see how bad/good you're running. The week I quit I ran full house into quads 4 times (I think). If you're not familiar with Texas Hold 'Em, that about as statistically probable as a tree falling on your car and feels about the same. In a graph which represents how many buy-ins under/over expected value you're running, it showed when I quit I was running 8 buy-ins under EV for a long stretch of about 60k hands. Now, poker snobs will say 60k hands is not a big enough of a sample size, but 60k hands is 60k hands. Knowing these dry spells are very normal and realizing how badly I was reacting emotionally to it, I quit.

To wrap up this already long-winded post, right before April 15th (dubbed Black Friday) I planned on giving it another go but didn't for obvious reasons. Actually, scratch that. I did deposit $50 and lost it all in a matter of a week when the payment processor I used decided to withdraw $35 of it inexplicably. Only having about $20 left, I played one round of Roulette, put it all on black, and last. Wee.

So yeah, that's how this story ends.

[kcb]

Originally Posted by Randjob

Quoted for truth. Online poker is infuriating. If you're going to play poker, as a way to make money or just as a hobby, just play live. It's much more enjoyable

It definitely is now. Man, I hate when people get me started on the current state of poker because it inevitably gets me thinking about the "Golden Days" around the time of the poker boom. One could be downright horrible and still pull in 50k/year. It took nothing more than reading off a hand chart basically and being patient. 50k/year at 100NL/200NL mind you, not the stakes I ever played. If those same 200NL grinders played in today's 10NL games they'd get eaten alive. It's the oddest thing I've ever seen.

Games started going down-hill with the UIGEA and the final nail in the coffin was Black Friday. A lot of good guys/players lost their bankrolls (thousands upon thousands). Having zero confidence in the game, but still needing to play due to degenism/making a living, they put in a small investment just enough to keep them in action but not enough to play their old stakes. So what happened is all the 100NL sharks dropped down to 50NL. 50NL sharks went down to 25NL, and so on and so forth. Now to really make money at 10NL -- and many say it's impossible due to the high rake percentage -- you have to be a straight killer. When I realized this, I quit. I'm not going to spend 30 hours a week analyzing my game, paying for coaching, etc just to win $100-$120 bucks a month, not including rakeback. It's not worth it. I have a family, friends, other hobbies, etc.

But yeah, I wish online poker from 2005 was still around. Fuck, it makes precum seep out of my penis just thinking about it.

[DeltaSigChi4]

goat meal = kcb ?

I played poker for the first time ever yesterday. I reside in Las Vegas? Should I pursue it any further? I placed the following in what I would suppose are meaningless LVRJ online tournaments: 22/138; 70/222; 6/134; 2/151. Qualified for two prize tournaments on the two top ten finishes, one of which is a 4500$ UFC 139-sponsored tournament. Guessing I will get raped in those; dunno. Seems like an enjoyable game to me. I am gathering that you sucked all the joy out of it.

It ended with roulette?

E

[kcb]

Originally Posted by DeltaSigChi4

goat meal = kcb ?

I played poker for the first time ever yesterday. I reside in Las Vegas? Should I pursue it any further? I placed the following in what I would suppose are meaningless LVRJ online tournaments: 22/138; 70/222; 6/134; 2/151. Qualified for two prize tournaments on the two top ten finishes, one of which is a 4500$ UFC 139-sponsored tournament. Guessing I will get raped in those; dunno. Seems like an enjoyable game to me. I am gathering that you sucked all the joy out of it.

It ended with roulette?

E

Yes, sir. kcb front and center. I was posting as goat meal for a bit because I lost an account bet with JTT. No one cared so after almost a year I went back to kcb.

Live poker is still very profitable. The skill level at a $1/$2 no limit game is that of playing with a bunch of 8 year olds because most everyone is so terrible. It depends on the time of day/night but usually most people are drunk/on tilt from losing at another game like Black Jack. If you're interested in getting better pick up a book with a focus on starting hands and position. Those two things will go a long way. Usually in those books basic betting is also discussed. I'd really absorb those for a long while and AVOID delving further into theory heavy stuff. All aspiring players go through a phase where they think they outgrow the basics and start playing any hand out of any position. This usually leads to a downswing (losing stretch).

When I was in the beginning stages of my poker career I bought every piece of literature I could. The stuff I can actually recommend is Harrington on Holdem (buy the tournament book, even though right now I'm talking about cash games and yes, they are different animals). HOH will break down position, starting hands, and bet sizing to a very basic level which are applicable to both cash games and tournaments. Then, just for the sake of history I'd read Super Systems 1. This was known as the bible of poker for a long time. Now it is kind of dated but some of the information is still good. It's a book that discusses many different forms of poker, too, which I thought was interesting when I first read it. These two books should get you well on your way to being pretty much better than everyone you play against in live low limit games.

As I mentioned earlier, tournaments are a totally different type of game. Not only do you have to pay attention to starting hands and position but also the blinds in relationship to your stack, the stage of the tournament, etc, etc. When you're playing bad you have to just grind through it, unlike a cash game where you can just quit until you're ready to play again. I much prefer cash games but many people find tournaments to be fun too.

You probably think this is already overwhelming but believe it or not it's just scratching the surface. Once you get the basics down, to actually beat someone good takes even more practice and analytical thinking. This is the part of the game that I love but to others it's a turn off. At the higher levels the trite saying "play the player, not the cards" is paramount. At the lower levels, not so much. Just play the cards in front of you and bet when you have a strong hand, fold when you don't. Who cares if it's boring. The point is to win money. At the higher levels though where the player base is much smaller, one is likely to have played their opponents hundreds or thousands of times. Meta-game comes into play, unorthodox plays are a must, etc.

One thing I haven't touched upon yet, which I'm sure others reading this will be surprised, and I'm actually surprised myself that I haven't, is the value of understanding pot odds. This is basically what separates winning low level players from the thrill seeking losers from whom you will be making money. Pot odds are very basic but a necessity to know. It's basic statistics, really. If the pot is $100 and the bet to me is $20 and all I have is a flush draw then is it mathematically correct to call, just based on pot odds alone? First I have to be able to divide $20 (the bet) into $120 (the pot size before the bet + the bet). Now I know the pot is offering me 6-1 on a call. Next I have to remember what the likelihood is of my hand improving to a flush on the next card. It's roughly 18%, so about 4-1. In this scenario I would call.

Pot odds go much further, though. Once you get them down, you will learn implied odds and reverse implied odds. It's all very interesting stuff and concepts that should be well established in your mind before making the big jump up in competition.

And if THIS isn't enough to turn your brain into a pretzel, there are non-poker things to consider if you plan to make this a career or become a serious hobbyist. Bankroll management is probably just as important, if not more, than the game of poker itself. You can be the best player in the world, but if you don't have enough money in your bankroll to withstand the swings, then you're going to be broke. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Anyway, if you have any questions let me know. I didn't plan on this post being as long as it is but, seriously, I can talk about this game for days.

[Crax]

Originally Posted by kcb

The stuff I can actually recommend is Harrington on Holdem (buy the tournament book, even though right now I'm talking about cash games and yes, they are different animals). HOH will break down position, starting hands, and bet sizing to a very basic level which are applicable to both cash games and tournaments. Then, just for the sake of history I'd read Super Systems 1. This was known as the bible of poker for a long time.

I'll have to check that out. I'm not really a player, but it's interesting to me. I came accross Ace on the river by Barry Greenstein and it's somewhat interesting so far, but I'm not really into the strategy part yet. Super/System came out in like 1977, but there is a super/system II from 2004. Is that one any good?